From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Reuben Thomas Subject: Why don't datetrees use timestamps? Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2015 17:35:39 +0000 Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b2e09838f2f6a051157297b Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37866) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXCRz-0003R7-9W for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Mar 2015 13:35:44 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXCRy-000804-27 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Mar 2015 13:35:43 -0400 Received: from mail-ie0-x235.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c03::235]:36725) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXCRx-0007zs-Ps for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Mar 2015 13:35:41 -0400 Received: by iegc3 with SMTP id c3so157617565ieg.3 for ; Sun, 15 Mar 2015 10:35:40 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org --047d7b2e09838f2f6a051157297b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I'm using orgmode 8.2.10. When I use capture, the year/month/day headers inserted aren't timestamps; why not? Is there a way to make them timestamps? (I can't find anything about this in the manual.) -- http://rrt.sc3d.org --047d7b2e09838f2f6a051157297b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I&#= 39;m using orgmode 8.2.10. When I use capture, the year/month/day headers i= nserted aren't timestamps; why not? Is there a way to make them timesta= mps? (I can't find anything about this in the manual.)

--
http://rrt.sc3d.org
--047d7b2e09838f2f6a051157297b-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Eric S Fraga Subject: Re: Why don't datetrees use timestamps? Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 09:21:55 +0000 Message-ID: <87oantb8lo.fsf@delle7240.chemeng.ucl.ac.uk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44236) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXSIa-00037d-2Y for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 06:31:04 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXSIU-0004DW-QC for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 06:31:03 -0400 Received: from mail-am1on0101.outbound.protection.outlook.com ([157.56.112.101]:43640 helo=emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXSIU-0004Cb-HK for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 06:30:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Reuben Thomas's message of "Sun, 15 Mar 2015 17:35:39 +0000") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Reuben Thomas Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org On Sunday, 15 Mar 2015 at 17:35, Reuben Thomas wrote: > I'm using orgmode 8.2.10. When I use capture, the year/month/day headers > inserted aren't timestamps; why not? Is there a way to make them > timestamps? (I can't find anything about this in the manual.) I do not think you can customise this aspect of org. In any case, I don't think it would make sense for the headlines in the date-tree to have time stamps. The time stamps, for me, belong with actual entries so that you can manipulate an entry consistently such as when refiling, for instance. Having extra time stamps on the headlines of the tree structure would confuse things, in my opinion. Depending on how you insert entries into a date-tree, you can try to ensure that the entries have the relevant time stamps. -- : Eric S Fraga (0xFFFCF67D), Emacs 24.4.1, Org release_8.3beta-820-gd92ef9 From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Subhan Michael Tindall Subject: Re: Why don't datetrees use timestamps? Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 16:52:13 +0000 Message-ID: <0947dbf0de284ed3b162708f1105b8c5@fcmailsvr2.familycareinc.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0947dbf0de284ed3b162708f1105b8c5fcmailsvr2familycareinc_" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52706) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXYFY-0007iE-Ii for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:52:22 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXYFU-0008Vb-Ga for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:52:20 -0400 Received: from outbound.familycareinc.org ([207.170.205.147]:36725) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXYFU-0008VL-5z for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 12:52:16 -0400 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." 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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 21:56:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0947dbf0de284ed3b162708f1105b8c5@fcmailsvr2.familycareinc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ebf6ced5aab05116eeaec Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39901) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXczb-0002dW-NU for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:56:12 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXcza-0004x2-AA for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:56:11 -0400 Received: from mail-ig0-x236.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c05::236]:34842) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXcza-0004wy-0c for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:56:10 -0400 Received: by igcau2 with SMTP id au2so17634789igc.0 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 14:56:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0947dbf0de284ed3b162708f1105b8c5@fcmailsvr2.familycareinc.org> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Subhan Michael Tindall Cc: "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" --001a113ebf6ced5aab05116eeaec Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 16 March 2015 at 16:52, Subhan Michael Tindall wrote: > You can use a custom capture template and have timestamps of various > sorts inserted. > > For example, I have one datetree I use that inserts a date/time stamp > using %T (%t gives only date, not time) > > See the documentation for capture (hit C-c C C to get into the customize > interface then scroll down) > =E2=80=8B My question was about the datetree entry headings of the form "20= 15-03-16 Monday". These aren't controlled by the template. I was interested to know why these headings look very much like timestamps (and effectively are timestamps, though at the top level they mention just a year and at the second level just a year and a month), but aren't actual timestamps. Eric Fraga said "I don't think it would make sense for the headlines in the date-tree to have time stamps"; but my question is not why they don't have time stamps, but why they ARE not time stamps (purely in the formal sense: the information they contain is already effectively a time stamp, as far as I can see). I was hoping to discover the rationale for the design from a developer :) --001a113ebf6ced5aab05116eeaec Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 16 March 2015 at 16:52, Subhan Mi= chael Tindall <SubhanT@familycareinc.org> wrote:
=

You can use a custom capture tem= plate and have timestamps of various sorts inserted.

For example, I have one datetree= I use that inserts a date/time stamp using %T (%t gives only date, not tim= e)

See the documentation for captur= e (hit C-c C C=C2=A0 to get into the customize interface then scroll down)<= /span>


=E2=80=8B My question was about the datetree entry headings of the form=20 "2015-03-16 Monday". These aren't controlled by the template.= I was=20 interested to know why these headings look very much like timestamps=20 (and effectively are timestamps, though at the top level they mention=20 just a year and at the second level just a year and a month), but aren'= t actual timestamps.

Eric Fraga said "I don't think it would make sense fo= r the headlines in the date-tree to have time stamps"; but my question= is not why they don't have time stamps, but why they ARE not time stam= ps (purely in the formal sense: the information they contain is already eff= ectively a time stamp, as far as I can see).

I was hoping to discover the rationale for the desi= gn from a developer :)
--001a113ebf6ced5aab05116eeaec-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Reuben Thomas Subject: Re: Why don't datetrees use timestamps? Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 21:58:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0947dbf0de284ed3b162708f1105b8c5@fcmailsvr2.familycareinc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba61409cdc378505116ef16d Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40266) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXd1T-0003YZ-58 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:58:08 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXd1S-0005UX-3S for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:58:07 -0400 Received: from mail-ig0-x233.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c05::233]:37693) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXd1R-0005UK-UW for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:58:06 -0400 Received: by igcqo1 with SMTP id qo1so56089126igc.0 for ; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 14:58:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <0947dbf0de284ed3b162708f1105b8c5@fcmailsvr2.familycareinc.org> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Subhan Michael Tindall Cc: "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" --90e6ba61409cdc378505116ef16d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B On 16 March 2015 at 16:52, Subhan Michael Tindall wrote: > You can use a custom capture template and have timestamps of various > sorts inserted. > > For example, I have one datetree I use that inserts a date/time stamp > using %T (%t gives only date, not time) > > See the documentation for capture (hit C-c C C to get into the customize > interface then scroll down) > =E2=80=8BMy question was about the datetree entry headings of the form "201= 5-03-16 Monday". These aren't controlled by the template. I was interested to know why these headings look very much like timestamps (and effectively are timestamps, though at the top level they mention just a year and at the second level just a year and a month), but aren't actual timestamps. I was hoping to discover the rationale for the design from a developer. --90e6ba61409cdc378505116ef16d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B
On 16 March 2015 at 16:52, = Subhan Michael Tindall <SubhanT@familycareinc.org> w= rote:

You can use a custom capture template= and have timestamps of various sorts inserted.

For example, I have one datetree I us= e that inserts a date/time stamp using %T (%t gives only date, not time)=

See the documentation for capture (hi= t C-c C C=C2=A0 to get into the customize interface then scroll down)


=E2=80=8BMy question was about the datetree entry head= ings of the form "2015-03-16 Monday". These aren't controlled= by the template. I was interested to know why these headings look very muc= h like timestamps (and effectively are timestamps, though at the top level = they mention just a year and at the second level just a year and a month), = but aren't actual timestamps.

I was hoping to discover the rationale for the d= esign from a developer.

--90e6ba61409cdc378505116ef16d-- From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Nick Dokos Subject: Re: Why don't datetrees use timestamps? Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:47:57 -0400 Message-ID: <87oansfo02.fsf@alphaville.usersys.redhat.com> References: <0947dbf0de284ed3b162708f1105b8c5@fcmailsvr2.familycareinc.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43950) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXfgM-0001fZ-QP for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:48:32 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXfgH-0002Le-Q7 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:48:30 -0400 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:43165) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YXfgH-0002LY-JC for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Mar 2015 20:48:25 -0400 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YXfgC-0003ba-2X for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 01:48:20 +0100 Received: from pool-173-76-32-186.bstnma.fios.verizon.net ([173.76.32.186]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 01:48:20 +0100 Received: from ndokos by pool-173-76-32-186.bstnma.fios.verizon.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 17 Mar 2015 01:48:20 +0100 List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Reuben Thomas writes: > On 16 March 2015 at 16:52, Subhan Michael Tindall wrote: > > You can use a custom capture template and have timestamps of various sorts inserted. > > For example, I have one datetree I use that inserts a date/time stamp using %T (%t gives only date, not time) > > See the documentation for capture (hit C-c C C  to get into the customize interface then scroll down) > > ​ My question was about the datetree entry headings of the form "2015-03-16 Monday". These aren't controlled by the template. I was interested to know why these > headings look very much like timestamps (and effectively are timestamps, though at the top level they mention just a year and at the second level just a year and a > month), but aren't actual timestamps. > > Eric Fraga said "I don't think it would make sense for the headlines in the date-tree to have time stamps"; but my question is not why they don't have time stamps, > but why they ARE not time stamps (purely in the formal sense: the information they contain is already effectively a time stamp, as far as I can see). > This is third-hand knowledge and guesswork on my part, but I think that datetrees are used for things like journals: "that's what I did that day". Datetrees just give you a hierarchical structure of nodes for easy navigation: you can look at your journal and open and close nodes at will, so you can navigate to the date of interest. The fact that the third-level headings look like timestamps is purely coincidental. Timestamps are given to things that are going to appear in an agenda: "that's what I have to do today, tomorrow or next week". They are completely orthogonal to datetrees in that respect. The stuff that ends up in your journal is stuff that (mostly) did not appear in the agenda: all the little things that you did that day, probably unplanned (otherwise they would be in the agenda!) Not that the headings in a datetree couldn't be made into timestamps; but that's not what people use datetrees for[fn:1]. The one thing that would be facilitated if they *were* timestamps, would be clicking on one and getting the day agenda for that long-gone day, so you could reminisce about the other things that you did that day, that did not end up in your journal. Maybe that's enough reason to make them timestamps, but there are other (perhaps less convenient) ways to do that. Of course, I may be suffering from a failure of imagination: you might be using datetrees in a completely different way, one where having the heading be a timestamp is a very good idea, but I can't think of any: if you *have* something in mind, do tell. > I was hoping to discover the rationale for the design from a developer :) You'll have to ask Carsten about it: he invented datetrees I believe (as well as most of org), but he does not frequent org circles much these days. Footnotes: [fn:1] Remember however my caveat about third-hand knowledge and guesswork: I don't use datetrees. Nick From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: joakim@verona.se Subject: Re: Why don't datetrees use timestamps? Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 17:21:50 +0100 Message-ID: References: <0947dbf0de284ed3b162708f1105b8c5@fcmailsvr2.familycareinc.org> <87oansfo02.fsf@alphaville.usersys.redhat.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55923) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYGjQ-000335-6T for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:22:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYGjM-0007fi-VD for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:22:08 -0400 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:41693) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYGjM-0007fS-Ok for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:22:04 -0400 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YYGjK-0004yo-Vh for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 17:22:03 +0100 Received: from h-235-62.a149.priv.bahnhof.se ([85.24.235.62]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 17:22:02 +0100 Received: from joakim by h-235-62.a149.priv.bahnhof.se with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 17:22:02 +0100 List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Nick Dokos writes: D> Reuben Thomas writes: > >> On 16 March 2015 at 16:52, Subhan Michael Tindall wrote: >> >> You can use a custom capture template and have timestamps of various sorts inserted. >> >> For example, I have one datetree I use that inserts a date/time stamp using %T (%t gives only date, not time) >> >> See the documentation for capture (hit C-c C C  to get into the customize interface then scroll down) >> >> ​ My question was about the datetree entry headings of the form "2015-03-16 Monday". These aren't controlled by the template. I was interested to know why these >> headings look very much like timestamps (and effectively are timestamps, though at the top level they mention just a year and at the second level just a year and a >> month), but aren't actual timestamps. >> >> Eric Fraga said "I don't think it would make sense for the headlines in the date-tree to have time stamps"; but my question is not why they don't have time stamps, >> but why they ARE not time stamps (purely in the formal sense: the information they contain is already effectively a time stamp, as far as I can see). >> > > This is third-hand knowledge and guesswork on my part, but I think that > datetrees are used for things like journals: "that's what I did that > day". Datetrees just give you a hierarchical structure of nodes for > easy navigation: you can look at your journal and open and close nodes > at will, so you can navigate to the date of interest. The fact that the > third-level headings look like timestamps is purely coincidental. > > Timestamps are given to things that are going to appear in an agenda: > "that's what I have to do today, tomorrow or next week". They are > completely orthogonal to datetrees in that respect. > > The stuff that ends up in your journal is stuff that (mostly) did not > appear in the agenda: all the little things that you did that day, > probably unplanned (otherwise they would be in the agenda!) > > Not that the headings in a datetree couldn't be made into timestamps; > but that's not what people use datetrees for[fn:1]. The one thing that > would be facilitated if they *were* timestamps, would be clicking on one > and getting the day agenda for that long-gone day, so you could > reminisce about the other things that you did that day, that did not end > up in your journal. Maybe that's enough reason to make them > timestamps, but there are other (perhaps less convenient) ways > to do that. > > Of course, I may be suffering from a failure of imagination: you might > be using datetrees in a completely different way, one where having the > heading be a timestamp is a very good idea, but I can't think of any: > if you *have* something in mind, do tell. I often feel the same thing, that datetrees should use timestamps(the 'quiet' kind). The main reason is that I often write a journal entry the day after, and it would be easier to manipulate the date like you do a time stamp. > >> I was hoping to discover the rationale for the design from a developer :) > > You'll have to ask Carsten about it: he invented datetrees I believe (as > well as most of org), but he does not frequent org circles much these > days. > > Footnotes: > > [fn:1] Remember however my caveat about third-hand knowledge and > guesswork: I don't use datetrees. > > Nick > > > -- Joakim Verona