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[67.249.80.215]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 62sm2869816qkh.113.2020.05.20.11.55.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 20 May 2020 11:55:16 -0700 (PDT) From: To: "'Jud Taylor'" , "'Stefan Nobis'" References: <87ftbw3mvw.fsf@alphaville.usersys.redhat.com> <6ffc8465-fdeb-4981-8303-43f09e26e0c1@www.fastmail.com> <20200519073352.GC7874@tuxteam.de> <20200519165720.GQ30250@volibear> <87d06z9czz.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <20200520114026.034c24c2@linux-h0yu.plc.hootoo.com> In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: issue tracker? Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 14:55:16 -0400 Message-ID: <00a201d62ed8$3455f330$9d01d990$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQIlxRZoT7VAz2hfxGtodGoX0vg5+gGLEuIOAa20IZoB4/OibgLxNUGpAQHqcQoB8F3aXgJAWo4VAm4hQuQCm668sKd/0cdQ Content-Language: en-us Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::833; envelope-from=gennady.uraltsev@gmail.com; helo=mail-qt1-x833.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail (rsa verify failed) header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=if0XDVNv; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 1.09 X-TUID: mnUdXYwhrWW2 Hello everyone, I have been following the org-mode ML and I have seen the discussion = about having a bug tracker. I wanted to offer my 2 cents as a = non-developer; barely a power user. Org-mode works incredibly well and I = use it on a daily basis. It is true that development is very active. = However I might say that saying that no bugs fall through the cracks in = the ML is a bit of a confirmation bias. My personal experience was = different. I actually submitted some bug reports through emacs about some slightly = less used parts of org-mode e.g. ob-eshell. The mailing list is = moderated (or has anti-spam) so the result was that my mail did not = appear AT ALL. I had that issue before, too, but here in IRC I was = suggested to wait for several days. The previous time I think the e-mail = eventually got through. When I submitted the bug report for ob-eshell it = never did. I found a workaround by using shell instead of ob-shell so I = never pursued the issue. Probably the bug is still there. I am glad that the ML works for the most active developers, and I = suppose it works well for the linux kernel since it needs to be = centralized and somewhat focused. However org-mode could benefit from = more community involvement even of newbies, especially around the parts = that are "part of" org-mode but are not that often used and don't = receive enough love and attention from the main developers.=20 A good bug tracker could also help identify parts that are not used or = buggy and that should, maybe, be slated for removal or at least = separated in a independent package. You see, for a beginner a bug is quite daunting because you never know = if it is actually a bug or if it is your own fault for misunderstanding = or misconfiguring something. And, honestly, in emacs, it is quite easy = for a beginner to misconfigure something. =20 All this to say that the ML works great and I picked up great ideas = while reading through it in my mailbox (I am subscribed), however it = still has a significant "gatekeeper" effect. Please, at least address = the issue that some bug reports don't even make it to the list AT ALL. = I do not want this email to be offensive in any way to anyone. I also = realize that what I described may not be representative. I excuse myself = in advance if my tone was inappropriate.=20 More than anything I still wish to thank everyone for a piece of = fantastic software that has helped me out crucially on multiple = occasions! Sincerely,=20 Gennady P.S. I wrote essentially the same e-mail on the IRC channel to be sure = that it gets delivered somewhere.=20 -----Original Message----- From: Emacs-orgmode = On Behalf = Of Jud Taylor Sent: Wednesday, 20 May, 2020 12:42 To: Stefan Nobis Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: issue tracker? I second that. Nicolas, thank you! Great product, better vision, high energy! =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original = Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Wednesday, May 20, 2020 7:12 AM, Stefan Nobis = wrote: > Detlef Steuer steuer@hsu-hh.de writes: > > > I would go as far as saying this list is one of the fastest reacting = > > amd friendliest communities I have been part of. The job Nicolas=20 > > does is just awesome. > > +1! > > ------ > > Until the next mail..., > Stefan.