From: Pieter Praet <pieter@praet.org>
To: Jani Nikula <jani@nikula.org>,
Jameson Graef Rollins <jrollins@finestructure.net>,
Xavier Maillard <xma@gnu.org>, Austin Clements <amdragon@MIT.EDU>
Cc: Notmuch Mail <notmuch@notmuchmail.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 3/4] config: only set search.exclude_tags to "deleted; spam; " during setup
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 09:03:42 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87d3aac0bl.fsf@praet.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <8739b6opce.fsf@nikula.org>
On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 07:22:25 +0000, Jani Nikula <jani@nikula.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:05:27 +0100, Pieter Praet <pieter@praet.org> wrote:
> > On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 14:53:41 -0800, Jameson Graef Rollins <jrollins@finestructure.net> wrote:
> > > On Sun, 22 Jan 2012 23:14:13 +0100, Xavier Maillard <xavier@maillard.im> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 20:19:03 +0100, Pieter Praet <pieter@praet.org> wrote:
> > > > > If the 'search.exclude_tags' option is missing from the config file,
> > > > > its value is automatically set to "deleted;spam;". Taking PoLS/DWIM
> > > > > into account, this should probably only happen during setup.
> > > > >
> > > > > This patch is actually Austin Clements' work:
> > > > > id:"20120117203211.GQ16740@mit.edu"
> > > >
> > > > I do not think this is a sane default. As I told it in another post. I
> > > > do not expect notmuch to skew my search queries not that I specifically
> > > > asked.
> > >
> > > Hi, Xavier. Do you currently mark things as "deleted" or "spam"? If
> > > not, this would have no affect on your search results. If you do, do
> > > you currently expect those messages to show up in searches? If so, why
> > > did you mark them as "deleted" or "spam" to begin with?
> > >
> > > I agree with your point in principle (ie. I don't generally want my
> > > searches tampered with behind the scenes) but the issue here is about
> > > messages that have been explicitly tagged as a form of "trash". Trash
> > > is by it's nature something you're trying to get rid of. If you wanted
> > > to find something in the future, why would you put it in the trash in
> > > the first place?
> > >
> >
> > You definitely have a point, but then again, who are we to assume that
> > the terms "deleted" and "spam" have the *exact* same meaning for
> > everyone? (also see id:"8739bbo0br.fsf@praet.org")
>
> "deleted" used to be a tag recognized by notmuch, and it used to sync to
> the T (trashed) maildir flag. Even if notmuch won't delete any of your
> mails now, I don't think you should use "deleted" on messages you want
> to see again. Please let's not split hairs about this.
>
Agreed, but it might be nice to make a clear distinction between
concepts and the actual tags mapped to them. I'm not suggestion we
redefine the term "deleted", but from an internationalization
standpoint, we shouldn't prevent users from mapping e.g. "verwijderd",
"supprimé", "gelöscht", ... to the concept "deleted".
> There really should be a definitive list of tags that are special to
> lib/cli/emacs (like "inbox", "unread", "deleted", ...), or are
> recommended for specific purposes (like "new" as an intermediate tag
> before more sophisticated tagging), to avoid prolonged discussions like
> this.
>
A list of recommended tags would definitely be nice, as long as they
remain recommendations (as opposed to obligations), especially since
there's really no reason to designate certain tags as being "special".
> BR,
> Jani.
Peace
--
Pieter
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2012-01-23 8:05 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 176+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2012-01-07 22:28 another attempt to add delete functionality in emacs Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-07 22:28 ` [PATCH 1/4] emacs: new customization variable to exclude "deleted" messages from search Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-07 22:28 ` [PATCH 2/4] emacs: repurpose notmuch-show-archive-thread-internal function for general thread tagging Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-07 22:28 ` [PATCH 3/4] emacs: add ability to "delete" messages and threads Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-07 22:28 ` [PATCH 4/4] emacs: modify help message for notmuch-search-line-faces to reflect preferred "deleted" tag name Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-08 1:26 ` change to default archive/delete key bindings Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-08 1:26 ` [PATCH 1/4] emacs: add show-mode functions to archive/delete only current message Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-08 1:26 ` [PATCH 2/4] emacs: add option to notmuch-show-next-open-message to pop out to parent buffer if at end Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-08 1:26 ` [PATCH 3/4] emacs: modify the default show-mode key bindings for archiving/deleting Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-08 1:26 ` [PATCH 4/4] emacs: use pop-at-end functionality in archive/delete-message functions Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-08 18:56 ` [PATCH 4/4 v2] " Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-08 19:28 ` [PATCH 4/4 v3] " Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-09 1:12 ` [PATCH 2/4] emacs: add option to notmuch-show-next-open-message to pop out to parent buffer if at end Aaron Ecay
2012-01-08 19:09 ` [PATCH 1/4 v2] emacs: add show-mode functions to archive/delete only current message Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-10 7:43 ` David Edmondson
2012-01-10 7:48 ` change to default archive/delete key bindings David Edmondson
2012-01-09 1:08 ` [PATCH 2/4] emacs: repurpose notmuch-show-archive-thread-internal function for general thread tagging Aaron Ecay
2012-01-09 2:49 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-09 5:02 ` Aaron Ecay
2012-01-11 2:56 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-11 5:53 ` Aaron Ecay
2012-01-11 7:07 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-09 1:14 ` [PATCH 1/4] emacs: new customization variable to exclude "deleted" messages from search Aaron Ecay
2012-01-09 1:49 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-09 2:34 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-09 2:46 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-09 4:31 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-11 5:02 ` [PATCH 0/3] Automatic tag-based exclusion Austin Clements
2012-01-11 5:02 ` [PATCH 1/3] count: Convert to new-style argument parsing Austin Clements
2012-01-11 8:17 ` Jani Nikula
2012-01-11 18:26 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-11 18:27 ` Jani Nikula
2012-01-11 5:02 ` [PATCH 2/3] lib: Add support for automatically excluding tags from queries Austin Clements
2012-01-11 10:11 ` Jani Nikula
2012-01-11 18:48 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-11 5:02 ` [PATCH 3/3] search: Support automatic tag exclusions Austin Clements
2012-01-11 19:27 ` Jani Nikula
2012-01-11 7:05 ` [PATCH 0/3] Automatic tag-based exclusion Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-13 23:07 ` [PATCH v2 0/3] Austin Clements
2012-01-13 23:07 ` [PATCH v2 1/3] count: Convert to new-style argument parsing Austin Clements
2012-01-14 1:49 ` David Bremner
2012-01-13 23:07 ` [PATCH v2 2/3] lib: Add support for automatically excluding tags from queries Austin Clements
2012-01-14 23:38 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-15 0:05 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-13 23:07 ` [PATCH v2 3/3] search: Support automatic tag exclusions Austin Clements
2012-01-14 23:40 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-15 0:14 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-16 9:12 ` David Edmondson
2012-01-16 19:28 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-16 22:18 ` Jeremy Nickurak
2012-01-16 22:25 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
[not found] ` <CA+eQo_3xxuhgUUXWXWyVD1LFhvhkw2psbA3ZnFnZk=BjjHXy8w@mail.gmail.com>
2012-01-17 9:08 ` David Edmondson
2012-01-17 20:32 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-18 8:38 ` David Edmondson
2012-01-18 8:52 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-18 9:52 ` David Edmondson
2012-01-18 18:51 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-16 19:34 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-14 23:38 ` [PATCH v2 0/3] Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-15 0:17 ` [PATCH v3 0/2] Automatic tag-based exclusion Austin Clements
2012-01-15 0:17 ` [PATCH v3 1/2] lib: Add support for automatically excluding tags from queries Austin Clements
2012-01-15 0:17 ` [PATCH v3 2/2] search: Support automatic tag exclusions Austin Clements
2012-01-19 19:19 ` Pieter Praet
2012-01-19 19:19 ` [PATCH 1/4] search: rename auto_exclude_tags to {search, }exclude_tags Pieter Praet
2012-01-19 19:41 ` [PATCH 1/4] search: rename auto_exclude_tags to {search,}exclude_tags Austin Clements
2012-01-19 21:14 ` [PATCH 1/4] search: rename auto_exclude_tags to {search, }exclude_tags Pieter Praet
2012-01-19 19:19 ` [PATCH 2/4] test: only exclude "deleted" messages from search if explicitly configured Pieter Praet
2012-01-19 19:19 ` [PATCH 3/4] config: only set search.exclude_tags to "deleted; spam; " during setup Pieter Praet
2012-01-22 22:14 ` Xavier Maillard
2012-01-22 22:53 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-23 5:05 ` Pieter Praet
2012-01-23 5:34 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-23 7:35 ` Pieter Praet
2012-01-23 7:22 ` Jani Nikula
2012-01-23 7:38 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-23 8:24 ` Jani Nikula
2012-01-23 8:45 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-25 0:43 ` Pieter Praet
2012-01-23 8:03 ` Pieter Praet [this message]
2012-01-23 8:31 ` Jani Nikula
2012-01-25 0:42 ` Pieter Praet
2012-01-23 4:16 ` Pieter Praet
2012-01-19 19:19 ` [PATCH 4/4] setup: prompt user for search.exclude_tags value Pieter Praet
2012-01-19 19:44 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-19 21:16 ` Pieter Praet
2012-01-20 4:19 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-22 6:55 ` Pieter Praet
2012-01-22 17:08 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-23 4:17 ` Pieter Praet
2012-01-23 4:22 ` [PATCH v2 1/6] search: rename auto_exclude_tags to {search, }exclude_tags Pieter Praet
2012-01-23 23:28 ` David Bremner
2012-01-23 4:22 ` [PATCH v2 2/6] test: only exclude "deleted" messages from search if explicitly configured Pieter Praet
2012-01-23 4:22 ` [PATCH v2 3/6] config: only exclude messages if 'search.exclude_tags' is explicitly set Pieter Praet
2012-01-23 4:22 ` [PATCH v2 4/6] setup: move tag printing and parsing into separate functions Pieter Praet
2012-01-23 5:07 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-23 5:50 ` [PATCH v3 4/6] setup: Create functions for tag list printing and parsing Pieter Praet
2012-01-23 4:22 ` [PATCH v2 5/6] setup: prompt user for search.exclude_tags value Pieter Praet
2012-01-23 4:34 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-23 5:40 ` [PATCH v3 " Pieter Praet
2012-01-23 4:22 ` [PATCH v2 6/6] NEWS: update "Tag exclusion" section Pieter Praet
2012-01-23 4:41 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-23 5:41 ` [PATCH v3 " Pieter Praet
2012-01-23 14:49 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-19 19:36 ` [PATCH v3 2/2] search: Support automatic tag exclusions Austin Clements
2012-01-19 20:06 ` markwalters1009
2012-01-19 20:16 ` Aaron Ecay
2012-01-19 20:23 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-19 20:28 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-19 22:01 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-19 22:03 ` [PATCH] Automatically exclude tags in notmuch-show Mark Walters
2012-01-19 22:59 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-19 23:54 ` Pieter Praet
2012-01-20 0:10 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-20 17:18 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-22 0:38 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-22 17:31 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-22 18:16 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-22 18:47 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-23 1:13 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-23 1:52 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-24 1:05 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-24 1:16 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-24 1:18 ` [RFC PATCH 1/4] Add NOTMUCH_MESSAGE_FLAG_EXCLUDED flag Mark Walters
2012-01-24 1:18 ` [RFC PATCH 2/4] " Mark Walters
2012-01-24 2:45 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-24 11:20 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-28 10:51 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-28 18:33 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-28 23:57 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-29 0:04 ` [PATCH 1/4] Add exclude flag Mark Walters
2012-01-29 0:04 ` [PATCH 2/4] " Mark Walters
2012-01-29 0:04 ` [PATCH 3/4] " Mark Walters
2012-01-29 0:04 ` [PATCH 4/4] " Mark Walters
2012-01-29 10:37 ` [RFC PATCH 2/4] Add NOTMUCH_MESSAGE_FLAG_EXCLUDED flag Mark Walters
2012-01-29 18:36 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-29 18:39 ` [PATCH 1/7] cli: add --do-not-exclude option to count and search Mark Walters
2012-01-31 4:17 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-31 11:40 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-31 16:18 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-31 16:31 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-02-11 18:44 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-02-11 18:50 ` Austin Clements
2012-02-11 19:00 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-29 18:39 ` [PATCH 2/7] lib: Rearrange the exclude code in query.cc Mark Walters
2012-01-29 18:39 ` [PATCH 3/7] lib: Make notmuch_query_search_messages set the exclude flag Mark Walters
2012-01-31 4:43 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-31 11:45 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-31 16:25 ` Austin Clements
2012-02-01 18:00 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-29 18:39 ` [PATCH 4/7] lib: Add the exclude flag to notmuch_query_search_threads Mark Walters
2012-01-31 4:50 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-31 11:47 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-31 5:07 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-29 18:39 ` [PATCH 5/7] cli: Make notmuch-show respect excludes Mark Walters
2012-01-31 4:56 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-31 12:30 ` Mark Walters
2012-01-29 18:39 ` [PATCH 6/7] cli: omit excluded messages in results where appropriate Mark Walters
2012-01-29 18:39 ` [PATCH 7/7] emacs: show: recognize the exclude flag Mark Walters
2012-01-31 5:08 ` [RFC PATCH 2/4] Add NOTMUCH_MESSAGE_FLAG_EXCLUDED flag Austin Clements
2012-01-24 1:18 ` [RFC PATCH 3/4] " Mark Walters
2012-01-24 2:53 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-24 1:18 ` [PATCH 4/4] " Mark Walters
2012-01-19 22:44 ` [PATCH v3 2/2] search: Support automatic tag exclusions Pieter Praet
2012-01-19 21:21 ` Pieter Praet
2012-01-22 22:09 ` Xavier Maillard
2012-01-23 4:15 ` Pieter Praet
2012-01-16 19:35 ` [PATCH v3 0/2] Automatic tag-based exclusion Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-17 1:08 ` David Bremner
2012-01-18 20:58 ` [PATCH] News for tag exclusion Austin Clements
2012-01-10 7:47 ` another attempt to add delete functionality in emacs David Edmondson
2012-01-10 20:01 ` David Bremner
2012-01-11 3:12 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
2012-01-11 5:16 ` Jani Nikula
2012-01-11 5:38 ` Austin Clements
2012-01-11 8:26 ` David Edmondson
2012-01-11 2:56 ` Jameson Graef Rollins
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