unofficial mirror of notmuch@notmuchmail.org
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
To: Gaute Hope <eg@gaute.vetsj.com>,
	astroidmail@googlegroups.com, notmuch@notmuchmail.org
Subject: Bcc, throw-keyids, and metadata hiding [was: Re: Announcing Astroid v0.11]
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2018 20:21:56 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87372g1b9n.fsf@fifthhorseman.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87bmh41mk5.fsf@fifthhorseman.net>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1521 bytes --]

On Sun 2018-02-04 16:18:02 -0500, Daniel Kahn Gillmor wrote:
> Well, i guess you could limit it to two copies total: one copy is to all
> Bcc'ed recipients, and one copy to all non-Bcc'ed recipients.  you'd
> want to make sure that you got the same Message-ID on each generated
> copy, of course.
>
> That avoids even the count of the Bcc recipients going out to the
> non-bcc folks, too, which is a nice outcome.

Hm, let me clarify: this only results in 2 copies total if either (a)
there is only one Bcc recipient, or (b) you actually do throw-keyids on
the Bcc'ed version, which results in the same pain for the folks
receiving the Bcc.

To avoid (b), you could do one copy of the message per Bcc'ed address,
and never throw keyids at all.

This isn't an extra metadata leak, because the bcc'ed person's e-mail
address will be put in the SMTP envelope (and, likely, in Delivered-To or
other equivalent headers appended by the MTA).

So it's N + 1 copies of the message, where N is the number of Bcc'ed
individuals.  This also removes any leak of the number of Bcc'ed
individuals from the Bcc'ed message.

i think it might be the most principled approach to metadata hiding, and
it also minimizes the pain on the receiver side.

If we ever end up with an e-mail transport that doesn't leak this
recipient metadata, then it might be worth revisiting the "throw-keyids"
situation.  but for now, it seems like the best approach really is to
have the MUA handle multiple message generation.

what do you think?

    --dkg

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 832 bytes --]

  reply	other threads:[~2018-02-05  1:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 12+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2018-02-04 10:46 Announcing Astroid v0.11 Gaute Hope
2018-02-04 15:37 ` Daniel Kahn Gillmor
2018-02-04 17:52   ` Gaute Hope
2018-02-04 18:32     ` Daniel Kahn Gillmor
2018-02-04 19:10       ` Gaute Hope
2018-02-04 21:18         ` Daniel Kahn Gillmor
2018-02-05  1:21           ` Daniel Kahn Gillmor [this message]
2018-02-05  7:33             ` Bcc, throw-keyids, and metadata hiding [was: Re: Announcing Astroid v0.11] Gaute Hope
2018-02-05  8:33               ` Daniel Kahn Gillmor
2018-02-05 15:15                 ` Gaute Hope
2018-02-20 10:08 ` Announcing Astroid v0.11.1 Gaute Hope
2018-02-20 10:28   ` David Bremner

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://notmuchmail.org/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=87372g1b9n.fsf@fifthhorseman.net \
    --to=dkg@fifthhorseman.net \
    --cc=astroidmail@googlegroups.com \
    --cc=eg@gaute.vetsj.com \
    --cc=notmuch@notmuchmail.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://yhetil.org/notmuch.git/

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).