From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by olra.theworths.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7547421192 for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 08:31:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at olra.theworths.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.29 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.29 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, T_MIME_NO_TEXT=0.01] autolearn=disabled Received: from olra.theworths.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (olra.theworths.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8i52+JJIb4tb for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 08:31:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from outgoing-mail.its.caltech.edu (outgoing-mail.its.caltech.edu [131.215.239.19]) by olra.theworths.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9A30429E5B for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 08:31:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from fire-doxen.imss.caltech.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fire-doxen-postvirus (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09A3A328004; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 08:31:34 -0800 (PST) X-Spam-Scanned: at Caltech-IMSS on fire-doxen by amavisd-new Received: from finestructure.net (DHCP-123-180.caltech.edu [131.215.123.180]) (Authenticated sender: jrollins) by fire-doxen-submit (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96DCA328044; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 08:31:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by finestructure.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7935F885; Tue, 31 Jan 2012 08:31:26 -0800 (PST) From: Jameson Graef Rollins To: David Edmondson , notmuch@notmuchmail.org Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/5 v3] reworked crypto toggle, plus a few other toggles In-Reply-To: References: <1327486729-18052-1-git-send-email-dme@dme.org> <1327941064-20027-1-git-send-email-dme@dme.org> <87pqe1w095.fsf@servo.finestructure.net> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.11+128~g6f388fa (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/23.3.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 08:31:26 -0800 Message-ID: <871uqf3kbl.fsf@servo.finestructure.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-BeenThere: notmuch@notmuchmail.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: "Use and development of the notmuch mail system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 16:31:39 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 08:09:08 +0000, David Edmondson wrote: > On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:47:34 -0800, Jameson Graef Rollins wrote: > > One thing I've noticed, which isn't actually part of this patch, is that > > the long-line truncation doesn't respect the indentation, which makes > > things look strange. >=20 > Which lines are getting wrapped in a way that you don't like? The header > line? The headers? The body? Header lines, such as Subject, To, Cc, etc. > > But honestly I still don't like our method of displaying threads as a > > giant chain of concatenated messages with indentation. But that's for > > later work. >=20 > It's inherited from sup, and is surely part of the "raison de notmuch" > :-) Inheritance is not a good justification for anything, much less questionable UI choices (I seem to have inherited baldness from my dad. Thanks dad). Problems I have with the current approach: =2D thread structure is opaque. This is especially true with long threads, where it can be next to impossible to see which messages are replies to what. This is by far my biggest pet peeve with the current format. =2D navigation through the thread is difficult. This is related to above. There's no way to simultaneously see the current message and the thread structure, which again, makes it very difficult to find children and parents. This could possibly be fixed by having key bindings that would navigate through parents, children and siblings of the current message, but that might be tricky to implement. =2D indentation of the entire message body is a really bad way to indicate thread depth. I don't like how messages start to walk off screen as threads get longer, or how copying regions of the body brings the indentation with it. Your indentation toggling will improve this a bit, though, but I still think it's a bandaid on the larger issue. I must say that the approach I've been longing for is a modified version of what mutt has: a top pain that is just the thread structure (with nice branching lines), and a bottom pain that displays the current message. I think that would be a much cleaner approach. jamie. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJPKBdeAAoJEO00zqvie6q8ho8P/jFTeXx8gviJzAawqSpREjCj OVc6zHldo9qcXEjyzVV9ojeu2n8DDQj4iVAk7kxQFPTDs4YKAnD+iTpQuIoS8rOV LPGfnDdfuiGlvsS17ktcLl7hQ/CGEJD/7EnqBbRKYazfsqkzUdbQzB0lNUg1zCdi M6jJqBs8ty93JQjcWxUyIez29RByCaxB8HqjhfjYAtHcArzcogu66kcHZbXC0pMh f4iq1xOhIM6wZaR6cW3qDFCpxxNpQ4O2PH1k+W52S5xnPB+kBQh3N7DeIk9HKabe 9CNasY5038J+qIVvMdytOhXpmeALj569O3qdQ3nphceWn2vJzYyjDIfxxnquI6LU 2JAn29cD5HVm7K5ffakEOs8Tqao8YQQENfC/7AJQapqIsTBVAl2bNXsi6hnHSoiq iW0qxRtOmayuDGG+HNqxa5JyUtr0/mA0HRk1u0pMR9ieKU4VxBSf8ir2fW8ET2+G lH429mABGwQJbr6nNHrDAVEjLD8b1x5pc8yPI2Iw7HO1lud3+fekWIMHwxzk+aLR 0bbeJIWOzpImom9KHPIhEHdxQgsOfvjT5dfCt7uSHpQDyhaU0Yp8ONoHMW4H755q erTHBLTgzESghqoF+1XsL8bISXr9serL25FgHRnEsSgLDUYTvlqG8BuMWuJ8d+6/ o2i0W2ZJXYT+0bu+HGtL =VF3/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--