From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id 8PcMOFw49WJhCAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2022 19:11:56 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id IKkDOFw49WLQGQAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2022 19:11:56 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8A8212CA5 for ; Thu, 11 Aug 2022 19:11:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:35144 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oMBit-00040m-NS for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 11 Aug 2022 13:11:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41536) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oMBg7-00008b-3q for bug-guix@gnu.org; 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charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-guix@gnu.org List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "bug-Guix" Reply-to: Jean Pierre De Jesus DIAZ X-ACL-Warn: , Jean Pierre De Jesus DIAZ From: Jean Pierre De Jesus DIAZ via Bug reports for GNU Guix X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1660237916; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:resent-cc: resent-from:resent-sender:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; 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spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.38 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=jeandudey.tech header.s=protonmail3 header.b=jxIVR3dp; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B8A8212CA5 X-Spam-Score: -3.38 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: BpuIDWKEfS9j >Just a thought, but maybe it shouldn't be a group of men who decides >what language is and is not inclusive and whether that's important. >We've had some Outreachy interns, maybe some of them wouldn't mind being >consulted on this. Inclusion through exclusion, this is just sending the messages that men bad anything else better. That just spreads hate for no particular reason. I doubt that a lot of people translate the Guix manual to Spanish, so, it probably wasn't even discussed or decided by anyone, let them be women, men or non-binary. And yes, language changes through use, but forcing it isn't the way, people use the language and it naturally adapts, and if inclusive language like using the letter "e" to make words neutral is going to be used it has to be justified, I don't think that there's justification to do so, or that anyone complained, there's not even people complaining for other languages that use masculine words. And yes, using "usuarios y usuarias" excludes non-binary people, that's a limitation of the language and nothing can be done about it unless everyday people start using it (read again, using it, not forcing it onto people). And in justification, I mean, real world data, statistics of people using it or willing to do so. To clarify I'm not against change, but I'm against forcing it. Nothing else= . Anyway, all people are welcome to discuss this. And the fact that no one started an edit war on Weblate says it all, no men is deciding anything. I personally want to know the reasoning behind it and if it was discussed and not abused for personal reasons or a movement. >I can=E2=80=99t really judge but don=E2=80=99t believe their and Ludo= =E2=80=99s proposal =E2=80=9Cles >usuaries=E2=80=9D is really perceived neutral and acceptable. (To Spanish >speakers: What do psychologists say? Does it appear feminine to you?) It doesn't feel feminine or masculine, so I guess it's neutral. But the fac= t that it makes text hard to read. I'd say that anyone can try doing a Stroop test to feel the same in their own language to. I say this being a neuro-typical person. I don't think forcing the "e" is going to make it easier for neuro-divergent people. =E2=80=94 Jean-Pierre De Jesus DIAZ