Thunderbird

Thunderbird

[ng0]

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Hi,

I am currently working on Thunderbird. While the trademark issues
between Debian and Mozilla have been resolved (and Icedove is no longer
a thing) I guess this isn't enough for Guix.

I'm developing a vanilla build first, but I'm open for suggestions on
what's needed to make it Guix compatible.

My only guess is "prevent use of Mozilla Webstore", which is what I'm
looking into in parallel for Firefox. If it wasn't for the /gnu/store/
it would be easy ;)
The default build is unbranded, so no issues there.
-- 
ng0
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Re: Thunderbird

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

The existence of Icedove and absense of Thunderbird in the following
places tell me that the major issues aren't solved yet:

- [[https://www.parabola.nu/packages/?q=thunderbird]].

-
  [[https://devel.trisquel.info/trisquel/package-helpers/tree/flidas]]. Flidas
  is the codename of the upcoming Trisquel 8.

- [[https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Icedove]]. Also,
  [[https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Thunderbird]] redirects to the first
  one.

As a plus, go to
[[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines]],
and *search* for Thunderbird (the links to it in the table of contents
don't work well, you have to search for it).

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Re: Thunderbird

[ng0]

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Hi,

Adonay Felipe Nogueira transcribed 1.2K bytes:
> The existence of Icedove and absense of Thunderbird in the following
> places tell me that the major issues aren't solved yet:
> 
> - [[https://www.parabola.nu/packages/?q=thunderbird]].
> 
> -
>   [[https://devel.trisquel.info/trisquel/package-helpers/tree/flidas]]. Flidas
>   is the codename of the upcoming Trisquel 8.
> 
> - [[https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Icedove]]. Also,
>   [[https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Thunderbird]] redirects to the first
>   one.
> 
> As a plus, go to
> [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines]],
> and *search* for Thunderbird (the links to it in the table of contents
> don't work well, you have to search for it).

Which major issues? I asked for issues which might exists,
the libreplanet.org wiki is notoriously lacking content most
of the time or lagging behind and directory.fsf.org isn't
up to date aswell for most of the software present there.

I'd like to get input on this mailinglist what you consider
to be major (and minor) issues.

Just for the libreplanet list:
"Problem: Recommends non-free software (extensions) and non-free searchplugins. "
This is the one problem I am going to address which I know of and it is easy
to fix in the package receipe.
-- 
ng0
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Re: Thunderbird

[ng0]

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What I mean is, I'd rather want to have the input and opinions
of our community than of many others I've already read.

I could include everything from here https://git.parabola.nu/abslibre.git/tree/nonprism/icedove
which fits for us, but I don't want to include more patches and substitutions than necessary.

ng0 transcribed 2.5K bytes:
> Hi,
> 
> Adonay Felipe Nogueira transcribed 1.2K bytes:
> > The existence of Icedove and absense of Thunderbird in the following
> > places tell me that the major issues aren't solved yet:
> > 
> > - [[https://www.parabola.nu/packages/?q=thunderbird]].
> > 
> > -
> >   [[https://devel.trisquel.info/trisquel/package-helpers/tree/flidas]]. Flidas
> >   is the codename of the upcoming Trisquel 8.
> > 
> > - [[https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Icedove]]. Also,
> >   [[https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Thunderbird]] redirects to the first
> >   one.
> > 
> > As a plus, go to
> > [[https://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines]],
> > and *search* for Thunderbird (the links to it in the table of contents
> > don't work well, you have to search for it).
> 
> Which major issues? I asked for issues which might exists,
> the libreplanet.org wiki is notoriously lacking content most
> of the time or lagging behind and directory.fsf.org isn't
> up to date aswell for most of the software present there.
> 
> I'd like to get input on this mailinglist what you consider
> to be major (and minor) issues.
> 
> Just for the libreplanet list:
> "Problem: Recommends non-free software (extensions) and non-free searchplugins. "
> This is the one problem I am going to address which I know of and it is easy
> to fix in the package receipe.
> -- 
> ng0
> GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
> GnuPG: https://n0is.noblogs.org/my-keys
> https://www.infotropique.org https://krosos.org



-- 
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Re: Thunderbird

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

I see...

Perhaps the extensions page can be redirected to the related page on the
Free Software Directory, or completely disable the extensions page
redirect and allow only packages to be installed either manually or also
manually through GNU Guix.

ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org> writes:

> Hi,
>
>
> Which major issues? I asked for issues which might exists,
> the libreplanet.org wiki is notoriously lacking content most
> of the time or lagging behind and directory.fsf.org isn't
> up to date aswell for most of the software present there.
>
> I'd like to get input on this mailinglist what you consider
> to be major (and minor) issues.
>
> Just for the libreplanet list:
> "Problem: Recommends non-free software (extensions) and non-free
> searchplugins. "
> This is the one problem I am going to address which I know of and it is easy
> to fix in the package receipe.

-- 
- https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno
- Palestrante e consultor sobre /software/ livre (não confundir com
  gratis).
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- Contato: https://libreplanet.org/wiki/User:Adfeno#vCard
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Re: Thunderbird

[Catonano]

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2017-09-06 22:28 GMT+02:00 Adonay Felipe Nogueira <adfeno@hyperbola.info>:

> I see...
>
> Perhaps the extensions page can be redirected to the related page on the
> Free Software Directory, or completely disable the extensions page
> redirect and allow only packages to be installed either manually or also
> manually through GNU Guix.
>
>
I was wondering if anyone would work on Astroid mail
https://astroidmail.github.io/

It seems simpler to package than Thunderbird and it could be extremely
useful in the short/medium term

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Re: Thunderbird

[Arun Isaac]

> I was wondering if anyone would work on Astroid mail
> https://astroidmail.github.io/
>
> It seems simpler to package than Thunderbird and it could be extremely
> useful in the short/medium term

Astroid requires external programs like mpop or offlineimap to fetch
mail. So it cannot quite replace Thunderbird for the casual mail
user. Perhaps, claws-mail or blasa are better alternatives. Both
claws-mail and balsa are already packaged for Guix.

Re: Thunderbird

[Catonano]

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2017-09-11 8:23 GMT+02:00 Arun Isaac <arunisaac@systemreboot.net>:

>
> > I was wondering if anyone would work on Astroid mail
> > https://astroidmail.github.io/
> >
> > It seems simpler to package than Thunderbird and it could be extremely
> > useful in the short/medium term
>
> Astroid requires external programs like mpop or offlineimap to fetch
> mail. So it cannot quite replace Thunderbird for the casual mail
> user.


What about the not so casual email user ? ;-)

Perhaps, claws-mail or blasa are better alternatives. Both
> claws-mail and balsa are already packaged for Guix.
>

I didn t know

In my view, those make the Thunderbird case even more desperate ;-)

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Re: Thunderbird

[ng0]

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Arun Isaac transcribed 0.4K bytes:
> 
> > I was wondering if anyone would work on Astroid mail
> > https://astroidmail.github.io/
> >
> > It seems simpler to package than Thunderbird and it could be extremely
> > useful in the short/medium term
> 
> Astroid requires external programs like mpop or offlineimap to fetch
> mail. So it cannot quite replace Thunderbird for the casual mail
> user. Perhaps, claws-mail or blasa are better alternatives. Both
> claws-mail and balsa are already packaged for Guix.

My only usecase for Thunderbird is Enigmail and its coming GNUnet integration
done in corporation of pEp (and GNUnet) and the Enigmail team.

Personal opinion: Thunderbird is really terrible and I have my reasons
why I stopped using it so long ago I stopped counting or caring for its
existence (must've been around '99 or '00 maybe...).

Nevertheless it is a mandatory tool for some people who can't switch
easily and I doubt anyone will embrace the task of getting Thunderbird
into Guix with joy.
So far I'm hitting the first drömpels (road bumpers) in the build process
with a reference within Thunderbird.

Wrt the earlier emails: yes, my intention (also for Icecat/Firefox) is to
provide Addons via Guix to get rid of yet another point of authority
(Mozilla Appstore). It is my understanding that at least a while back
someone was already looking into this and at least the idea was accepted
and welcomed.
So far my only reference is NixOS and Gentoo, where NixOS is more useful
with the way they construct their solutions.
I'll also try the same for Newmoon (Palemoon) (or rather my wip'ish
fork/patchset of Newmoon) before I sent it in when I have it in an presentable,
libre state.

Alternatives exist, yep. But for me it's no only this or only that
application question. It's about dynamic choice.
-- 
ng0
GnuPG: A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588
GnuPG: https://krosos.org/dist/keys/
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Re: Thunderbird

[Catonano]

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2017-09-11 12:31 GMT+02:00 ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org>:

> Arun Isaac transcribed 0.4K bytes:
> >
> > > I was wondering if anyone would work on Astroid mail
> > > https://astroidmail.github.io/
> > >
> > > It seems simpler to package than Thunderbird and it could be extremely
> > > useful in the short/medium term
> >
> > Astroid requires external programs like mpop or offlineimap to fetch
> > mail. So it cannot quite replace Thunderbird for the casual mail
> > user. Perhaps, claws-mail or blasa are better alternatives. Both
> > claws-mail and balsa are already packaged for Guix.
>
> My only usecase for Thunderbird is Enigmail and its coming GNUnet
> integration
> done in corporation of pEp (and GNUnet) and the Enigmail team.
>

ok


> Personal opinion: Thunderbird is really terrible and I have my reasons
> why I stopped using it so long ago I stopped counting or caring for its
> existence (must've been around '99 or '00 maybe...).
>

right


> Nevertheless it is a mandatory tool for some people who can't switch
> easily and I doubt anyone will embrace the task of getting Thunderbird
> into Guix with joy.
>

right

So far I'm hitting the first drömpels (road bumpers) in the build process
> with a reference within Thunderbird.
>
> Wrt the earlier emails: yes, my intention (also for Icecat/Firefox) is to
> provide Addons via Guix to get rid of yet another point of authority
> (Mozilla Appstore). It is my understanding that at least a while back
> someone was already looking into this and at least the idea was accepted
> and welcomed.
>

it s an exciting view of the future, yes.


> Alternatives exist, yep. But for me it's no only this or only that
> application question. It's about dynamic choice.
>

Of course you have your motivation

My fear is that you are somewhat underestimating the effort that such an
endeavour entails.

I might be wrong, of course.
Anyway, I was just requesting an effort on Androidmail.
It might be you, Arun or anyone else ;-)

My case for Androidmail is that it could be one of the steps (for me) in
the process of abandoning Gmail.

Again: I might be wrong !

Thanks for engaging ;-)

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Re: Thunderbird

[ng0]

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Catonano transcribed 6.1K bytes:
> 2017-09-11 12:31 GMT+02:00 ng0 <ng0@infotropique.org>:
> 
> > Arun Isaac transcribed 0.4K bytes:
> > >
> > > > I was wondering if anyone would work on Astroid mail
> > > > https://astroidmail.github.io/
> > > >
> > > > It seems simpler to package than Thunderbird and it could be extremely
> > > > useful in the short/medium term
> > >
> > > Astroid requires external programs like mpop or offlineimap to fetch
> > > mail. So it cannot quite replace Thunderbird for the casual mail
> > > user. Perhaps, claws-mail or blasa are better alternatives. Both
> > > claws-mail and balsa are already packaged for Guix.
> >
> > My only usecase for Thunderbird is Enigmail and its coming GNUnet
> > integration
> > done in corporation of pEp (and GNUnet) and the Enigmail team.
> >
> 
> ok
> 
> 
> > Personal opinion: Thunderbird is really terrible and I have my reasons
> > why I stopped using it so long ago I stopped counting or caring for its
> > existence (must've been around '99 or '00 maybe...).
> >
> 
> right
> 
> 
> > Nevertheless it is a mandatory tool for some people who can't switch
> > easily and I doubt anyone will embrace the task of getting Thunderbird
> > into Guix with joy.
> >
> 
> right
> 
> So far I'm hitting the first drömpels (road bumpers) in the build process
> > with a reference within Thunderbird.
> >
> > Wrt the earlier emails: yes, my intention (also for Icecat/Firefox) is to
> > provide Addons via Guix to get rid of yet another point of authority
> > (Mozilla Appstore). It is my understanding that at least a while back
> > someone was already looking into this and at least the idea was accepted
> > and welcomed.
> >
> 
> it s an exciting view of the future, yes.
> 
> 
> > Alternatives exist, yep. But for me it's no only this or only that
> > application question. It's about dynamic choice.
> >
> 
> Of course you have your motivation
> 
> My fear is that you are somewhat underestimating the effort that such an
> endeavour entails.

3 years into this project (not TB ;)) and some years longer into another one I've got
my reality check once or twice, so I know how long volunteering work on
certain construction sites can take (and about the times when it just wears
you out). I also know that if I won't finish it, there's enough people
(at least 1 person I know of) interested that we will get it finished eventually
at some point. For me it's not about the effort it takes but the time one
has to spend debugging issues. And of course, as a volunteering task
how much fun / motivation you see in it. Don't do anything you don't want to
do. For now I want to do Thunderbird because I like challenges.
Sometimes it looks like you make no progress at all for weeks or months,
and suddenly it works. That's all it is in packages, solving puzzles.

Of course I have to plan work now since university started. I'll move the
thunerbird package around on the weekend, so that it's more visible for
those who want to work on it - it's still in an old repository intended
for a structure I no longer see worth following.

> I might be wrong, of course.
> Anyway, I was just requesting an effort on Androidmail.
> It might be you, Arun or anyone else ;-)
> 
> My case for Androidmail is that it could be one of the steps (for me) in
> the process of abandoning Gmail.
> 
> Again: I might be wrong !
> 
> Thanks for engaging ;-)

-- 
ng0
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Re: Thunderbird

[Arun Isaac]

> Perhaps, claws-mail or blasa are better alternatives. Both
>> claws-mail and balsa are already packaged for Guix.
>>
> I didn t know

I'm not saying we shouldn't package astroid mail. Just making an
observation...

> In my view, those make the Thunderbird case even more desperate ;-)

Like ng0 said, no one is going to embrace the task of getting
Thunderbird into Guix with joy. :-P