FOSDEM 2019 - dev-room proposal

FOSDEM 2019 - dev-room proposal

[Pjotr Prins]

* Minimalistic Languages 

Every year FOSDEM allows for dev-rooms that need to appeal to a wider
audience and do not overlap with other dev-rooms. Programming
languages are popular and some of the large languages get their own,
such as Python and Rust. See the devrooms section on

  https://archive.fosdem.org/2018/schedule/

Manolis and I want to submit a plan for 'Minimalistic Languages - for
big ideas' dev-room.  Good examples that fit the room are 

- mes and reproducible builds
- Guile and Guix
- Guile JIT
- Lua JIT
- Lua for scriptable projects (example?)

Anyone anything to add to this list? More ideas is better.

Other languages that could fit are Forth, Smalltalk, Tcl, Rebol.
Provided they have a big idea.

Note that JVM languages and languages that compile to Javascript do
not fit the room. They probably have their own dev-rooms anyway.
Haskell and other Lisps may fit too (if they don't get their own
room). We think with enough good projects our dev-room will be of
interest.

Pj & Manolis

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Pjotr Prins]

Just to clarify, we will organize a two day Guix conference before
FOSDEM. That is pretty much in the box. We have room at ICAB, the place
we were last year. 

  http://icab.be/

In addition to the Guix conference there is the possibility to have a
dev-room at FOSDEM, but we need to apply for it. If the interest is as
underwhelming as it is now I think we better forget about it. These
things take effort to organize.

I think the 'minimalistic languages for big ideas' room has appeal to
a wider audience and some of our projects fit really well. Anyone
any project ideas? Or do we just forget about it? How about:

- Guile Guix build farm and Cuirass
- Sheperd (Guile)

Everyone, please think with us.

Pj.

On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 11:23:19AM +0200, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> * Minimalistic Languages 
> 
> Every year FOSDEM allows for dev-rooms that need to appeal to a wider
> audience and do not overlap with other dev-rooms. Programming
> languages are popular and some of the large languages get their own,
> such as Python and Rust. See the devrooms section on
> 
>   https://archive.fosdem.org/2018/schedule/
> 
> Manolis and I want to submit a plan for 'Minimalistic Languages - for
> big ideas' dev-room.  Good examples that fit the room are 
> 
> - mes and reproducible builds
> - Guile and Guix
> - Guile JIT
> - Lua JIT
> - Lua for scriptable projects (example?)
> 
> Anyone anything to add to this list? More ideas is better.
> 
> Other languages that could fit are Forth, Smalltalk, Tcl, Rebol.
> Provided they have a big idea.
> 
> Note that JVM languages and languages that compile to Javascript do
> not fit the room. They probably have their own dev-rooms anyway.
> Haskell and other Lisps may fit too (if they don't get their own
> room). We think with enough good projects our dev-room will be of
> interest.
> 
> Pj & Manolis
> 
> 
> 

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Amirouche Boubekki]

On 2018-08-30 20:20, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> Just to clarify, we will organize a two day Guix conference before
> FOSDEM. That is pretty much in the box. We have room at ICAB, the place
> we were last year.
> 
>   http://icab.be/

About the specifically guix event, maybe it's a good time to organize
an install party. Also, let's be clear upfront if that the fringe event
can include those kind of work: poster, workshop, tutorial... anything
else to add?

> In addition to the Guix conference there is the possibility to have a
> dev-room at FOSDEM, but we need to apply for it. If the interest is as
> underwhelming as it is now I think we better forget about it. These
> things take effort to organize.
> 
> I think the 'minimalistic languages for big ideas' room has appeal to
> a wider audience and some of our projects fit really well. Anyone
> any project ideas? Or do we just forget about it? How about:
> 
> - Guile Guix build farm and Cuirass
> - Sheperd (Guile)
> 

Yes!

I posted previously a message on various Scheme related bulletin
boards, with not many responses except in Racket Group [0] that boils
down to "maybe we should do something".

[0] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/racket-users/MehPv0ugBI4

I created a page at http://community.schemewiki.org/?FOSDEM2019

Like I wrote previously I was thinking out loud when I emailed 
guile-user
about a scheme dev room, with the hope more people would answer the call
but it did not happen.

What about the following names for the room:

- big fringe ideas
- define
- dev off
- off tracks

This names or others might allow even more developers (whatever that 
means...)
to join the event from a broad horizon. Let's remember the event is Free 
and
Open source Software Developers' European Meeting.

European make me think that about art, culture and history.

So this makes me think that it's about free. Art can be free. You feel 
free to dev
an art form like mezangelle / code poetry / executable poetry.

European is not the USA nor Asia maybe there is something interesting to 
find
to make it interesting for people from Europe and abroad to come to 
FOSDEM.
What about social / ethno / anthroposcene?

Well, I speak a lot about art. That's the way I think of coding. It's a 
way
(albeit new) to express oneself. It's a form of art and also a way to 
empower
others to create art and communicate. code imo is about communication.

What do other people think about the name that room must be?

I believe the schemewiki.org is more convenient because registration
is not required.

Another thing I'd like to stress, is that last year most talks I read 
about
were driven by big companies and stuff. And all the counter developer 
culture
was spread in various rooms. Let's make a room for alternatives maybe? 
No so big
communities that have a lot of potential or might just be moon shots.

I have a book called 'Open Space Technology' it's about organizing
meetings and events. I will read skim over it tonight. And (try) provide
feedback about the latest advancement in psychohistory engineering.

I hope to read some of your ideas.


Here is another one: #zehefyu93 undo s:/3nce 4 a peacefu/ prosperity.

Just to come back on the righteous track, maybe one can invite speakers.

Let's get inspiration from racketcon 2018 and 2017 or clojureconj or 
whatever..

stop brainwashing,
start brainstorming,
and have fun.

One has 6 months to prepare.

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Amirouche Boubekki]

On 2018-08-30 21:38, Amirouche Boubekki wrote:

Open Space Technology (OST) is a method for organizing and running a 
meeting or multi-day conference, where participants have been invited in 
order to focus on a specific, important task or purpose. OST is a 
participant-driven process whose agenda is created by people attending. 
At the end of each OST meeting, a document is created summarizing the 
work of the group.

I already participated in such event as part of software craftman paris 
meetup and django cong 2012

> 
> I have a book called 'Open Space Technology' it's about organizing
> meetings and events. I will read skim over it tonight. And (try) 
> provide
> feedback about the latest advancement in psychohistory engineering.
> 

That book has a wikipedia page : 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Space_Technology

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Pjotr Prins]

Thanks Amirouche,

On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 09:38:56PM +0200, Amirouche Boubekki wrote:
> On 2018-08-30 20:20, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> > Just to clarify, we will organize a two day Guix conference before
> > FOSDEM. That is pretty much in the box. We have room at ICAB, the place
> > we were last year.
> > 
> >   http://icab.be/
> 
> About the specifically guix event, maybe it's a good time to organize
> an install party. Also, let's be clear upfront if that the fringe event
> can include those kind of work: poster, workshop, tutorial... anything
> else to add?

I think we'll focus those days on the development effort. 

At FOSDEM it is possible to get a stand. That would be a good place to
help people start up. Or, if we get a dev-room, we can use it to
install stuff on the side. At least, make the offer.

Tutorials would fit there too.

> > In addition to the Guix conference there is the possibility to have a
> > dev-room at FOSDEM, but we need to apply for it. If the interest is as
> > underwhelming as it is now I think we better forget about it. These
> > things take effort to organize.
> > 
> > I think the 'minimalistic languages for big ideas' room has appeal to
> > a wider audience and some of our projects fit really well. Anyone
> > any project ideas? Or do we just forget about it? How about:
> > 
> > - Guile Guix build farm and Cuirass
> > - Sheperd (Guile)
> > 
> 
> Yes!
> 
> I posted previously a message on various Scheme related bulletin
> boards, with not many responses except in Racket Group [0] that boils
> down to "maybe we should do something".

Heh. Usually it is a small group of people that make it happen.

> [0] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/racket-users/MehPv0ugBI4
> 
> I created a page at http://community.schemewiki.org/?FOSDEM2019
> 
> Like I wrote previously I was thinking out loud when I emailed guile-user
> about a scheme dev room, with the hope more people would answer the call
> but it did not happen.
> 
> What about the following names for the room:
> 
> - big fringe ideas
> - define
> - dev off
> - off tracks
> 
> This names or others might allow even more developers (whatever that
> means...)

Hmmm. If you look at the examples of last year - you should - you can
see they go for *major* topics.

I think we can play the small languages card because it is like a bin
for everything that does not fit the big guns. Manolis and I chose
minimalistic languages because Scheme fits so well :)

> to join the event from a broad horizon. Let's remember the event is Free and
> Open source Software Developers' European Meeting.
> 
> European make me think that about art, culture and history.
> 
> So this makes me think that it's about free. Art can be free. You feel free
> to dev
> an art form like mezangelle / code poetry / executable poetry.
> 
> European is not the USA nor Asia maybe there is something interesting to
> find
> to make it interesting for people from Europe and abroad to come to FOSDEM.
> What about social / ethno / anthroposcene?
> 
> Well, I speak a lot about art. That's the way I think of coding. It's a way
> (albeit new) to express oneself. It's a form of art and also a way to
> empower
> others to create art and communicate. code imo is about communication.

I fully appreciate this :)

> What do other people think about the name that room must be?
>
> I believe the schemewiki.org is more convenient because registration
> is not required.
> 
> Another thing I'd like to stress, is that last year most talks I read about
> were driven by big companies and stuff. And all the counter developer
> culture
> was spread in various rooms. Let's make a room for alternatives maybe? No so
> big
> communities that have a lot of potential or might just be moon shots.

I think that is a very interesting approach.

> I have a book called 'Open Space Technology' it's about organizing
> meetings and events. I will read skim over it tonight. And (try) provide
> feedback about the latest advancement in psychohistory engineering.
> 
> I hope to read some of your ideas.
> 
> 
> Here is another one: #zehefyu93 undo s:/3nce 4 a peacefu/ prosperity.
> 
> Just to come back on the righteous track, maybe one can invite speakers.
> 
> Let's get inspiration from racketcon 2018 and 2017 or clojureconj or
> whatever..
> 
> stop brainwashing,
> start brainstorming,
> and have fun.

Fun +1

How about a dev-room for 'fun freedom programming languages'. It may get a
white space talk. Then, if I think of the work on MES and Guix it may
not be that great a fit. My point is that we should name the room that
will fit these projects

- MES reproducible from soucre bootstrap
- Guile Guix 
- Guile Cuirass
- Guile JIT
- Guile Sheperd
- Lua JIT

and then more...

Note that 'fun freedom programming languages' is already too long a
name for a devroom.

> One has 6 months to prepare.

But we only have 3 weeks to apply for a dev-room.

Pj.

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Amirouche Boubekki]

On 2018-08-31 11:35, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> Thanks Amirouche,
> 
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 09:38:56PM +0200, Amirouche Boubekki wrote:
>> On 2018-08-30 20:20, Pjotr Prins wrote:
>> > Just to clarify, we will organize a two day Guix conference before
>> > FOSDEM. That is pretty much in the box. We have room at ICAB, the place
>> > we were last year.
>> >
>> >   http://icab.be/
>> 
>> About the specifically guix event, maybe it's a good time to organize
>> an install party. Also, let's be clear upfront if that the fringe 
>> event
>> can include those kind of work: poster, workshop, tutorial... anything
>> else to add?
> 
> I think we'll focus those days on the development effort.

Alright!

> 
> At FOSDEM it is possible to get a stand. That would be a good place to
> help people start up. Or, if we get a dev-room, we can use it to
> install stuff on the side. At least, make the offer.
> 
> Tutorials would fit there too.
> 

> 
> Fun +1
> 

:]


> How about a dev-room for 'fun freedom programming languages'. It may 
> get a
> white space talk. Then, if I think of the work on MES and Guix it may
> not be that great a fit. My point is that we should name the room that
> will fit these projects
> 
> - MES reproducible from soucre bootstrap
> - Guile Guix
> - Guile Cuirass
> - Guile JIT
> - Guile Sheperd
> - Lua JIT
> 
> and then more...

I agree.

Is it ok if I rework http://community.schemewiki.org/?FOSDEM2019
so that it claims that there is a 'minimalistic language' devroom 
proposal
that will be made taking into account what people propose on that page?

Also, I would like to copy/paste the proposals from [0] to that wiki 
page so
that people see that there are actually more people interested in such a 
room.

[0] 
https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019#A_list_of_proposed_talks_for_a_GNU_Guile.2FGuix_track_.40FOSDEM_2019

> 
> Note that 'fun freedom programming languages' is already too long a
> name for a devroom.
> 

Ok

>> One has 6 months to prepare.
> 
> But we only have 3 weeks to apply for a dev-room.

ack

Re: FOSDEM 2019 - devroom proposal

[Pjotr Prins]

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 07:40:35PM +0200, Amirouche Boubekki wrote:
> > How about a dev-room for 'fun freedom programming languages'. It may get
> > a
> > white space talk. Then, if I think of the work on MES and Guix it may
> > not be that great a fit. My point is that we should name the room that
> > will fit these projects
> > 
> > - MES reproducible from soucre bootstrap
> > - Guile Guix
> > - Guile Cuirass
> > - Guile JIT
> > - Guile Sheperd
> > - Lua JIT
> > 
> > and then more...
> 
> I agree.
> 
> Is it ok if I rework http://community.schemewiki.org/?FOSDEM2019
> so that it claims that there is a 'minimalistic language' devroom proposal
> that will be made taking into account what people propose on that page?

Yes, please.

> Also, I would like to copy/paste the proposals from [0] to that wiki page so
> that people see that there are actually more people interested in such a
> room.
> 
> [0] https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019#A_list_of_proposed_talks_for_a_GNU_Guile.2FGuix_track_.40FOSDEM_2019

Good idea.

> > Note that 'fun freedom programming languages' is already too long a
> > name for a devroom.
> > 
> 
> Ok
> 
> > > One has 6 months to prepare.
> > 
> > But we only have 3 weeks to apply for a dev-room.
> 
> ack

I modified the subject to reflect this effort. It is quite separate
from the Guix days.

Ping me when you are done - I'll send a message to the FOSDEM mailing
list too. See what they think.

Thanks again! We'll have some fun :)

Pj.

Re: FOSDEM 2019 - devroom proposal

[Amirouche Boubekki]

Le ven. 31 août 2018 à 19:49, Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> a écrit :
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 07:40:35PM +0200, Amirouche Boubekki wrote:
> > > How about a dev-room for 'fun freedom programming languages'. It may get
> > > a
> > > white space talk. Then, if I think of the work on MES and Guix it may
> > > not be that great a fit. My point is that we should name the room that
> > > will fit these projects
> > >
> > > - MES reproducible from soucre bootstrap
> > > - Guile Guix
> > > - Guile Cuirass
> > > - Guile JIT
> > > - Guile Sheperd
> > > - Lua JIT
> > >
> > > and then more...
> >
> > I agree.
> >
> > Is it ok if I rework http://community.schemewiki.org/?FOSDEM2019
> > so that it claims that there is a 'minimalistic language' devroom proposal
> > that will be made taking into account what people propose on that page?
>
> Yes, please.
>
> > Also, I would like to copy/paste the proposals from [0] to that wiki page so
> > that people see that there are actually more people interested in such a
> > room.
> >
> > [0] https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019#A_list_of_proposed_talks_for_a_GNU_Guile.2FGuix_track_.40FOSDEM_2019
>
> Good idea.
>
> > > Note that 'fun freedom programming languages' is already too long a
> > > name for a devroom.
> > >
> >
> > Ok
> >
> > > > One has 6 months to prepare.
> > >
> > > But we only have 3 weeks to apply for a dev-room.
> >
> > ack
>
> I modified the subject to reflect this effort. It is quite separate
> from the Guix days.
>
> Ping me when you are done - I'll send a message to the FOSDEM mailing
> list too. See what they think.

Done @ http://community.schemewiki.org/?FOSDEM2019

I also pinged #scheme and racketeers.

What about LUA people?

>
> Thanks again! We'll have some fun :)
>
> Pj.
>

Re: FOSDEM 2019 - devroom proposal

[Pjotr Prins]

On Sat, Sep 01, 2018 at 02:37:10PM +0200, Amirouche Boubekki wrote:
> Done @ http://community.schemewiki.org/?FOSDEM2019

That looks great. Love the logo.

> I also pinged #scheme and racketeers.
> 
> What about LUA people?

We'll try and connect.

Pj.

Re: FOSDEM 2019 - devroom proposal

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello!

One week left to submit a proposal.  Manolis, Pjotr: please let us know
if you need more input!

Last year, someone (was it you, Björn?) suggested having a booth at
FOSDEM.  If you’re still motivated, now’s probably a good time to get
started with this.  :-)

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: FOSDEM 2019 - devroom proposal

[Björn Höfling]

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On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 13:25:15 +0200
ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> One week left to submit a proposal.  Manolis, Pjotr: please let us
> know if you need more input!

I added another talk that I could give: Hacking free software with GNU
Guix, using Haunt as an example. That's noting new, but a concise
example of using guix build -S, guix environment, guix build --source
in order to quickly and nicely hack around with a free software project.

I planned this as a blog post but I can give it as a talk if you think
this is of interest. Added it to both the libreplanet and scheme wiki.
Don't know which one is the "master" now?

 
> Last year, someone (was it you, Björn?) suggested having a booth at
> FOSDEM.  If you’re still motivated, now’s probably a good time to get
> started with this.  :-)

Yeah, that was me :-) I will bring that up in a new thread.

Björn

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Re: FOSDEM 2019 - devroom proposal

[fis trivial]

Björn Höfling writes:

> On Sat, 08 Sep 2018 13:25:15 +0200
> ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) wrote:
>
>> Hello!
>>
>> One week left to submit a proposal.  Manolis, Pjotr: please let us
>> know if you need more input!
>
> I added another talk that I could give: Hacking free software with GNU
> Guix, using Haunt as an example. That's noting new, but a concise
> example of using guix build -S, guix environment, guix build --source
> in order to quickly and nicely hack around with a free software project.
>

Hi, if you are giving a talk for usual Guix usage, I blogged a mis-use of Guix:

    By including nautilus (file manager from gnome) as --ad-hoc argument of
    Guix environment, you can create an illusion of having a GUI shell spawned
    from Guix environment.

It's not something really worth mentioning, but maybe some others might find if
useful to have a GUI shell spawned from guix.

> I planned this as a blog post but I can give it as a talk if you think
> this is of interest. Added it to both the libreplanet and scheme wiki.
> Don't know which one is the "master" now?
>
>
>> Last year, someone (was it you, Björn?) suggested having a booth at
>> FOSDEM.  If you’re still motivated, now’s probably a good time to get
>> started with this.  :-)
>
> Yeah, that was me :-) I will bring that up in a new thread.
>
> Björn


Jiaming

Re: FOSDEM 2019 - devroom proposal

[Pjotr Prins]

On Sat, Sep 08, 2018 at 01:25:15PM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> Hello!
> 
> One week left to submit a proposal.  Manolis, Pjotr: please let us know
> if you need more input!

Lua and Mes have agreed to join us so we can do a 'mimialistic
languages with big ideas' proposal. We are trying to find a 4th
language to join for completeness. We still have some time.

Pj.

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Hi,

> On 2018-08-30 20:20, Pjotr Prins wrote:
>> Just to clarify, we will organize a two day Guix conference before
>> FOSDEM. That is pretty much in the box. We have room at ICAB, the place
>> we were last year.
>>
>>   http://icab.be/
>
> About the specifically guix event, maybe it's a good time to organize
> an install party. Also, let's be clear upfront if that the fringe event
> can include those kind of work: poster, workshop, tutorial... anything
> else to add?

We haven’t really discussed the kind of event we would like to have, and
it’s true that we should find consensus on how to organize the event.

In my opinion, an install party may not be the best use of time for the
Guix meeting, because the target audience is Guix developers who
probably already have Guix installed.  (If not we can help them get it
installed via the installer script, but I would not want to focus too
much on this part.)

We haven’t discussed the kind of event we would like to have, so here
are some thoughts.  I think it would be a good idea to use this
opportunity to facilitate small group projects.  We could start by
having everyone think of a small Guix-related project, decide on 5 of
them (so that everyone has something they find interesting), then head
off into separate group work for half an hour with an option to extend
for another half hour (or moving to another group).

At the end of each session one person from each group shares with the
other attending people the results of their session.  (No more than a
few minutes each.)

Another fun thing we could do is a skill share session where people
volunteer to teach one thing to anyone who would like to listen.
(E.g. how to review patch submissions on Debbugs effectively; or how to
use git rebase without misery; using Geiser with Guix; how to contribute
translations; little IRC tricks; etc.)

This model of facilitating smaller sessions worked pretty well for the
Reproducible Builds summits in the past, and I think we could spend some
of the time doing this.  It ensures that people can collaborate
effectively and with purpose, and it gives everyone a chance to speak
and shape the meeting.

I would like to keep the number of talks to a minimum and leave out
introductory talks completely (that would be more suited for a general
FOSDEM audience).  Instead I’d like to see more active
self-organisation.

What do y’all think about this?

--
Ricardo

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Pjotr Prins]

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 02:41:04PM +0200, Ricardo Wurmus wrote:
> I would like to keep the number of talks to a minimum and leave out
> introductory talks completely (that would be more suited for a general
> FOSDEM audience).  Instead I’d like to see more active
> self-organisation.
> 
> What do y’all think about this?

Yes, it is called an unconference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconference

A few talks each morning would be good though. 15-30 mins each.

Pj.

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi Ricardo,

Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> skribis:

> We haven’t discussed the kind of event we would like to have, so here
> are some thoughts.  I think it would be a good idea to use this
> opportunity to facilitate small group projects.  We could start by
> having everyone think of a small Guix-related project, decide on 5 of
> them (so that everyone has something they find interesting), then head
> off into separate group work for half an hour with an option to extend
> for another half hour (or moving to another group).
>
> At the end of each session one person from each group shares with the
> other attending people the results of their session.  (No more than a
> few minutes each.)

I’m all for it!

Topics could be things like specific items of the 1.0 road map,
addressing specific usability issues, improving the Cuirass web UI,
socket activations and Fiberized Shepherd, etc.  Each topic should be
rather concrete, focused, and actionable IMO.

> Another fun thing we could do is a skill share session where people
> volunteer to teach one thing to anyone who would like to listen.
> (E.g. how to review patch submissions on Debbugs effectively; or how to
> use git rebase without misery; using Geiser with Guix; how to contribute
> translations; little IRC tricks; etc.)

Agreed, that’s an aspect of the R-B Summits that I enjoyed!  IIRC we had
these sessions after lunch, which was also a good away to awaken.  ;-)

> I would like to keep the number of talks to a minimum and leave out
> introductory talks completely (that would be more suited for a general
> FOSDEM audience).  Instead I’d like to see more active
> self-organisation.

I agree.

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Nils Gillmann]

Pjotr Prins transcribed 1.8K bytes:
> Just to clarify, we will organize a two day Guix conference before
> FOSDEM. That is pretty much in the box. We have room at ICAB, the place
> we were last year. 
> 
>   http://icab.be/

Is this directly before fosdem? I'd like to join this time if my
schedule allows it. Should we split off a thread to plan this?

> In addition to the Guix conference there is the possibility to have a
> dev-room at FOSDEM, but we need to apply for it. If the interest is as
> underwhelming as it is now I think we better forget about it. These
> things take effort to organize.
> 
> I think the 'minimalistic languages for big ideas' room has appeal to
> a wider audience and some of our projects fit really well. Anyone
> any project ideas? Or do we just forget about it? How about:
> 
> - Guile Guix build farm and Cuirass
> - Sheperd (Guile)
> 
> Everyone, please think with us.
> 
> Pj.
> 
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 11:23:19AM +0200, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> > * Minimalistic Languages 
> > 
> > Every year FOSDEM allows for dev-rooms that need to appeal to a wider
> > audience and do not overlap with other dev-rooms. Programming
> > languages are popular and some of the large languages get their own,
> > such as Python and Rust. See the devrooms section on
> > 
> >   https://archive.fosdem.org/2018/schedule/
> > 
> > Manolis and I want to submit a plan for 'Minimalistic Languages - for
> > big ideas' dev-room.  Good examples that fit the room are 
> > 
> > - mes and reproducible builds
> > - Guile and Guix
> > - Guile JIT
> > - Lua JIT
> > - Lua for scriptable projects (example?)
> > 
> > Anyone anything to add to this list? More ideas is better.
> > 
> > Other languages that could fit are Forth, Smalltalk, Tcl, Rebol.
> > Provided they have a big idea.
> > 
> > Note that JVM languages and languages that compile to Javascript do
> > not fit the room. They probably have their own dev-rooms anyway.
> > Haskell and other Lisps may fit too (if they don't get their own
> > room). We think with enough good projects our dev-room will be of
> > interest.
> > 
> > Pj & Manolis
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Nils Gillmann <ng0@n0.is> writes:

> Pjotr Prins transcribed 1.8K bytes:
>> Just to clarify, we will organize a two day Guix conference before
>> FOSDEM. That is pretty much in the box. We have room at ICAB, the place
>> we were last year. 
>> 
>>   http://icab.be/
>
> Is this directly before fosdem? I'd like to join this time if my
> schedule allows it.

Yes, this is supposed to be on the two days before FOSDEM.  Planning
happens here:

   https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019

-- 
Ricardo

Re: FOSDEM 2019 - we need a VGA to HDMI converter! And live streaming

[Pjotr Prins]

FOSDEM from this year only supports HDMI.

For those of us on older laptops, can anyone bring a VGA -> HDMI
converter?  That would be very helpful.

Also it may be an idea to stream some of the GNU Guix days. These days
that can be done with phones. Anyone interested in helping out?

Pj.

Re: FOSDEM 2019 - we need a VGA to HDMI converter! And live streaming

[Pjotr Prins]

No one can help out here?

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 02:17:39PM +0100, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> FOSDEM from this year only supports HDMI.
> 
> For those of us on older laptops, can anyone bring a VGA -> HDMI
> converter?  That would be very helpful.
> 
> Also it may be an idea to stream some of the GNU Guix days. These days
> that can be done with phones. Anyone interested in helping out?
> 
> Pj.
> 

Re: FOSDEM 2019 - we need a VGA to HDMI converter! And live streaming

[Gábor Boskovits]

Hello,

Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> ezt írta (időpont: 2019. jan.
22., K, 11:26):
>
> No one can help out here?
>
> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 02:17:39PM +0100, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> > FOSDEM from this year only supports HDMI.
> >
> > For those of us on older laptops, can anyone bring a VGA -> HDMI
> > converter?  That would be very helpful.
> >

I can't help with that.

> > Also it may be an idea to stream some of the GNU Guix days. These days
> > that can be done with phones. Anyone interested in helping out?
> >

I guess I could help with that. What does the phone need?

> > Pj.
> >
>

Best regards,
g_bor

Re: FOSDEM 2019 - we need a VGA to HDMI converter! And live streaming

[Efraim Flashner]

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On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 10:53:43AM +0100, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> No one can help out here?
> 
> On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 02:17:39PM +0100, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> > FOSDEM from this year only supports HDMI.
> > 
> > For those of us on older laptops, can anyone bring a VGA -> HDMI
> > converter?  That would be very helpful.
> > 
> > Also it may be an idea to stream some of the GNU Guix days. These days
> > that can be done with phones. Anyone interested in helping out?
> > 
> > Pj.
> > 

I have my phone which I can bring. I'm not really sure how the streaming
part works but it would be nice to record it in any case.

I have a mini-displayport to hdmi adapter that I'm bringing if anyone
needs. I also have a DVI->VGA adapter which I don't expect to be useful.
I'm not sure if VGA->HDMI exists so much, searching online they're
always listed as hdmi->vga or as an "active converter". I might have one
somewhere, but I don't remember it ever working.

-- 
Efraim Flashner   <efraim@flashner.co.il>   אפרים פלשנר
GPG key = A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D  14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351
Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted

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Re: FOSDEM 2019 - we need a VGA to HDMI converter! And live streaming

[Pjotr Prins]

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 01:16:33PM +0200, Efraim Flashner wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 10:53:43AM +0100, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> > No one can help out here?
> > 
> > On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 02:17:39PM +0100, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> > > FOSDEM from this year only supports HDMI.
> > > 
> > > For those of us on older laptops, can anyone bring a VGA -> HDMI
> > > converter?  That would be very helpful.
> > > 
> > > Also it may be an idea to stream some of the GNU Guix days. These days
> > > that can be done with phones. Anyone interested in helping out?
> > > 
> > > Pj.
> > > 
> 
> I have my phone which I can bring. I'm not really sure how the streaming
> part works but it would be nice to record it in any case.

I saw people doing it in Kenya. I can ask. I feel like a noob
sometimes ;)

> I have a mini-displayport to hdmi adapter that I'm bringing if anyone
> needs. I also have a DVI->VGA adapter which I don't expect to be useful.
> I'm not sure if VGA->HDMI exists so much, searching online they're
> always listed as hdmi->vga or as an "active converter". I might have one
> somewhere, but I don't remember it ever working.

They exist, but it is complicated hardware ~$15.  No matter, if no one
has one we'll have to share a laptop for presentations.

Pj.

Re: FOSDEM 2019 - we need a VGA to HDMI converter! And live streaming

[Leo Famulari]

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 12:36:06PM +0100, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> > I have a mini-displayport to hdmi adapter that I'm bringing if anyone
> > needs. I also have a DVI->VGA adapter which I don't expect to be useful.
> > I'm not sure if VGA->HDMI exists so much, searching online they're
> > always listed as hdmi->vga or as an "active converter". I might have one
> > somewhere, but I don't remember it ever working.
> 
> They exist, but it is complicated hardware ~$15.  No matter, if no one
> has one we'll have to share a laptop for presentations.

Yes, it is complicated hardware that basically requires a small computer
handling the analog -> digital conversion. Some of them do work but you
have to pay for it.

Re: FOSDEM 2019 - we need a VGA to HDMI converter! And live streaming

[Gábor Boskovits]

Hello,

Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> ezt írta (időpont: 2019. jan.
22., K, 19:50):
>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 01:16:33PM +0200, Efraim Flashner wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 10:53:43AM +0100, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> > > No one can help out here?
> > >
> > > On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 02:17:39PM +0100, Pjotr Prins wrote:
> > > > FOSDEM from this year only supports HDMI.
> > > >
> > > > For those of us on older laptops, can anyone bring a VGA -> HDMI
> > > > converter?  That would be very helpful.
> > > >
> > > > Also it may be an idea to stream some of the GNU Guix days. These days
> > > > that can be done with phones. Anyone interested in helping out?
> > > >
> > > > Pj.
> > > >
> >
> > I have my phone which I can bring. I'm not really sure how the streaming
> > part works but it would be nice to record it in any case.
>
> I saw people doing it in Kenya. I can ask. I feel like a noob
> sometimes ;)
>

I looked a bit around, istm the android youtube and twitter app does
have an option to do so.
I will experiment a bit with this tomorrow. I also had a look around
if we could use some
matrix.org things to get a big video conference call, but maybe we
should not do that.
I would like to have a look at that option too. Does anyone have a
more free-ish idea?

> > I have a mini-displayport to hdmi adapter that I'm bringing if anyone
> > needs. I also have a DVI->VGA adapter which I don't expect to be useful.
> > I'm not sure if VGA->HDMI exists so much, searching online they're
> > always listed as hdmi->vga or as an "active converter". I might have one
> > somewhere, but I don't remember it ever working.
>
> They exist, but it is complicated hardware ~$15.  No matter, if no one
> has one we'll have to share a laptop for presentations.
>
> Pj.
>

Best regards,
g_bor

Re: FOSDEM 2019 - we need a VGA to HDMI converter! And live streaming

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> writes:

> For those of us on older laptops, can anyone bring a VGA -> HDMI
> converter?  That would be very helpful.
>
> Also it may be an idea to stream some of the GNU Guix days. These days
> that can be done with phones. Anyone interested in helping out?
…
> No one can help out here?

I can’t, sorry.

I don’t have an adapter, nor do I have a phone to do streaming.  (I’d
also prefer to delegate jobs a little more.)

Considering that the program during the Guix days will be very much
hands-on with very few talks, I think we can do without streaming.

--
Ricardo

Re: FOSDEM 2019 - we need a VGA to HDMI converter! And live streaming

[Laura Lazzati]

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 10:26 AM Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> wrote:
>
> FOSDEM from this year only supports HDMI.
>
> For those of us on older laptops, can anyone bring a VGA -> HDMI
> converter?  That would be very helpful.
I don 't have an adapter, but I have a cable. You plug it to your VGA
computer and in the other end you have HDMI. Does it work for you?
>
> Also it may be an idea to stream some of the GNU Guix days. These days
> that can be done with phones. Anyone interested in helping out?
>
> Pj.
>

Re: FOSDEM 2019 - we need a VGA to HDMI converter! And live streaming

[Chris Marusich]

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Hi Pjotr,

Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> writes:

> For those of us on older laptops, can anyone bring a VGA -> HDMI
> converter?  That would be very helpful.

I have one VGA -> HDMI converter, which I'll bring.  It requires one
Type-A USB port for power.

So, you plug it in to a VGA port and a USB port on your computer, and
then you connect an HDMI cable to its HDMI end.  Works like a charm!

-- 
Chris

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Re: FOSDEM 2019 - we need a VGA to HDMI converter! And live streaming

[Pjotr Prins]

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 11:40:37PM -0800, Chris Marusich wrote:
> Hi Pjotr,
> 
> Pjotr Prins <pjotr.public12@thebird.nl> writes:
> 
> > For those of us on older laptops, can anyone bring a VGA -> HDMI
> > converter?  That would be very helpful.
> 
> I have one VGA -> HDMI converter, which I'll bring.  It requires one
> Type-A USB port for power.
> 
> So, you plug it in to a VGA port and a USB port on your computer, and
> then you connect an HDMI cable to its HDMI end.  Works like a charm!

That is just great :). Problem solved.

Pj.

FOSDEM 2019

[Manolis Ragkousis]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 748 bytes --]

Hello everyone,

It's that time of the year again we need to start organizing about
FOSDEM. We have a deadline for the 20th of September[1] to apply for a
devroom. We also need to start looking for a place for this year's
fringe event!

I created a libreplanet page[2] to start writing possible talk ideas in
case we get a devroom.

We also need to write a proposal for our devroom application. The last
year's proposal should be a good start. (attached) We should also talk
with the Lua people in case we can share a devroom with them.

Start sending ideas people!! This FOSDEM is going to be awesome!

Thank you,
Manolis

[1] https://fosdem.org/2019/news/2018-08-10-call-for-participation/
[2] https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/FOSDEM2019


[-- Attachment #2: fosdem-proposal.txt --]
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* Devroom name:

GNU Guile — the official extension language for the GNU Project

* Devroom description:

The [[https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/][GNU Guile]] programming
language is dynamically typed and
multi-paradigm.  Guile allows for functional approaches,
object-oriented programming using GOOPs (a CLOS-like object system),
logic programming, and system scripting.  Guile is suited for
meta-programming and has a powerful macro-system which allows users to
change the language on the fly.  Guile features a growing set of
bindings and libraries for libssh, git, json, sdl, opengl, cairo, gtk,
redis, SQL, etc.

GNU Guile is the preferred extension system for the GNU Project which
features an implementation of the Scheme programming language, a
dialect of Lisp with a mature community. GNU Guile is continually
improved where recent milestones were a new compiler infrastructure, a
virtual machine implementation, a switch to the Boehm-Demers-Weiser
garbage collector and many improvements to the Guile Scheme language
itself.  Major performance improvements were demonstrated at FOSDEM
with a new optimizing compiler which is now part of the recent 2.2
release. Other recent additions are a "sandbox" facility that can run
code from untrusted users and improved support for immutable data.

The use of GNU Guile is growing.  Amongst the current applications
written in Guile, there are AO, a new 3D CAD engine; Skribilo, Artanis
and Haunt, (web) templating engines; Sly, a gaming engine; and (of
course) GNU Guix, a functional software deployment manager for the GNU
Project which also underpins GuixSD a new functional GNU/Linux
Distribution. GNU Guix is a rapidly growing project that distinguishes
itself by creating 100% reproducible software installations generated
by a hackable system.  GNU Guix is an important driver for GNU Guile
development because the massive project puts large demands on GNU
Guile. In the last year GNU Guix has grown 40% from approx. 200K to
280K lines of source code whereof an amazing 260K lines are written in
GNU Guile!  GNU Guix has great support for developers, including the
GNU Emacs eco-system and GNU Guile (of course), but also for Java,
Clojure, Perl, Ruby, Python, Haskell, GO, D, Erlang, and Elixir.

Interesting spin-offs of Guix are a Guile make replacement,
virtualization of development environments, the Shepherd and a new
approach to system service integration; and the bootstrappable.org
effort with Mes and Nyacc, a project for creating bootstrapped build
systems from source only (also presented at FOSDEM last year) which
tries to revert the current trend of bootstrapping build systems with
binaries. Bootstrapping from source is crucial to free software
distribution.

Other noteworthy GNU Guile applications include GNU Lilypond, GnuCash,
and GNU Mcron a cron-compatible task scheduler.  More GNU Guile projects
can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Guile and
https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/libraries/.

The devroom will provide at least the following content with a focus
on software development:

- An introduction to GNU Guile
- Guile Next: Latest developments in GNU Guile
- Concurrent programming with Fibers and 8sync
- Compiler implementation in Guile
- Web frameworks with GNU Guile
- Shepherd the systemd replacement
- GNU Guix
    + Latest GNU Guix developments
    + Tooling for development environments
    + Whole-system deployment, and distributed deployment
- Guile and network programming
    + Dealing with concurrency in networking applications
    + Application performance
- The Guile community
  + Freedom can be expressed in multiple ways
  + Encouraging and mentoring newbies; encourage diversity
  + Tutorials and documentation

A complete list of currently considered talks can be found at
https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/TalkProposals.

The purpose of the dev room is to present latest developments in Guile
itself, to share exciting news about, and demo applications using Guile,
to provide a space to meet with fellow hackers and enthusiasts, and to
grow the Guile community.

* Related URLs

  - GNU Project: http://www.gnu.org
  - GNU Guile: https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/
  - GNU Guile libs: https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/libraries/
  - GNU Guix: http://www.gnu.org/software/guix
  - MES and bootstrappable: https://gitlab.com/janneke/mes and
http://bootstrappable.org

* Why should FOSDEM accept this proposal?

GNU Guile is a core component of the successful and long running GNU
project, and today the fresh Lisp language is being discovered by a
new generation of programmers.  In 2016 we had our first half day
Guile devroom at FOSDEM and it was a great success: the devroom was
full for every talk!  In 2017 we were lucky to get a full day which
was also full all day. FOSDEM gives a great impulse by getting
developers together and projects like MES started there.  Both years,
together with the LUA devroom we overlapped a session where we
discussed the future of small languages (we are interested in sharing
the devroom with LUA again if we can not have a full day).

This would be the second opportunity for GNU Guile related projects
world-wide to meet at FOSDEM.  Similar to last year, we will invite
speakers from other projects that are loosely coupled to the Guile
environment (e.g. projects that use Guile purely as an extension
language, such as gdb and Lilypond).

In short, having this devroom will allow us to dig deeper into the
details of language design and reproducible software in particular,
whilst giving back to the free software community as a whole.

* Devroom organisers

  - Ludovic Courtès (ludo@gnu.org) - GNU Guile project leader
  - Ricardo Wurmus (ricardo.wurmus@mdc-berlin.de)
  - Pjotr Prins (pjotr.public445@thebird.nl)
  - Alex Sassmannshausen (alex.sassmannshausen@gmail.com)
  - Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias.gr>
  - Manolis Ragkousis <manolis837@gmail.com>

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Hi Manolis,

> We also need to write a proposal for our devroom application. The last
> year's proposal should be a good start. (attached)

Thanks for getting the ball rolling!

If we base our application on this proposal I think we should make these
changes:

- mention the work on adding JIT

- mention “Chickadee” instead of “Sly” (Chickadee is a general purpose
  game development toolkit that sees continued development, whereas Sly
  is specifically for game development with functional reactive
  programming)

- change “AO” to “libfive Studio” (the project has been renamed)

- add “R” to the list of languages for which Guix has great support

- “Guile make replacement”?  Is this an actual thing?

- use HTTPS for http://bootstrappable.org

Obviously, the list of topics would need to change (that depends on the
proposals for talks) and references to “last year” would need to be
updated.

We should also figure out if there are enough people in the extended
Guile universe who would be willing to give a talk.  If we don’t have
enough topics we might want to share the room with other communities
that have some links to us (e.g. other Lispy languages, or “small”
languages, etc).

--
Ricardo

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Andy Wingo]

On Tue 21 Aug 2018 19:57, Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> writes:

> If we base our application on this proposal I think we should make these
> changes:
>
> - mention the work on adding JIT

Yes definitely!  This will be Guile 3, so we can call it "Just-in-time
code generation for Scheme: Speed for free in Guile 3" or something.
I'd be happy to give this talk.

Andy

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Mike Gran]

> I created a libreplanet page[2] to start writing possible talk ideas in
> case we get a devroom.
> 
> We also need to write a proposal for our devroom application. The last
> year's proposal should be a good start. (attached) We should also talk
> with the Lua people in case we can share a devroom with them.
> 
> Start sending ideas people!! This FOSDEM is going to be awesome!

Under the topic of encouraging newbies (and tangentially in the topic
of increasing diversity), I could do a talk about my experiments in
writing interactive fiction in Guile.  I have had a goal of making
something as simple to use as the Twine interactive fiction engine.  I
posted that on the wiki for now.

-Mike Gran

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Mike Gran]

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 04:33:53PM +0300, Manolis Ragkousis wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> It's that time of the year again we need to start organizing about
> FOSDEM. We have a deadline for the 20th of September[1] to apply for a
> devroom. We also need to start looking for a place for this year's
> fringe event!

Hi.

In your list, you mention "encouraging newbies" and "encouraging
diversity".  In that category, I could do a talk on my experiments in
writing interactive fiction in Scheme.  Interactive fiction tools like
Twine have been a first step for many young programmers, and tools
like Twine have been adopted by many young LGBT authors.  If we could
make the syntax simple and obvious enough, maybe an interactive
fiction tool in Guile could be useful.

But the technical challenge of making a simple tool has been
surprisingly complicated in interesting ways.

I went ahead and threw that up on the libreplanet wiki for now

Regards,
Mike Gran

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Christopher Lemmer Webber]

Manolis Ragkousis writes:

> Hello everyone,
>
> It's that time of the year again we need to start organizing about
> FOSDEM. We have a deadline for the 20th of September[1] to apply for a
> devroom. We also need to start looking for a place for this year's
> fringe event!
>
> I created a libreplanet page[2] to start writing possible talk ideas in
> case we get a devroom.

Thanks for everyone is doing organizing, especially Manolis for kicking
this off!

I added a talk topic: "A Guiler's Year of Racket".  I think there's a
lot we could learn from our fellow friends in Racket-land, and I'd like
to share some of that!

Re: FOSDEM 2019

[Ludovic Courtès]

Heya,

Christopher Lemmer Webber <cwebber@dustycloud.org> skribis:

> I added a talk topic: "A Guiler's Year of Racket".  I think there's a
> lot we could learn from our fellow friends in Racket-land, and I'd like
> to share some of that!

I’d be very interested in listening to it!

Ludo’.