all messages for Guix-related lists mirrored at yhetil.org
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Svante Signell <svante.signell@gmail.com>
To: rms@gnu.org, marinus.savoritias@tuta.io
Cc: Guix-devel@gnu.org, gnu-system-discuss@gnu.org, psmith@gnu.org
Subject: Re: (Really) Free Software future
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2019 21:56:08 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <e316ae4731693745a5919bfa453cb585cbc41cc0.camel@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1iKCly-00017l-So@fencepost.gnu.org>

On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 22:41 -0400, Richard Stallman wrote:
> 
> If systemD is be hard to replace, that is a kind of lock-in.  But it
> isn't _vendor_ lock-in.  systemD, like most free software packages,
> is not tied to any particular vendor.  Indeed, the usual concept of
> "vendor" for free software is not applicable to free software at all.

Sorry Richard, but it is really a vendor lock-in. As you know there is
only one _upstream_ of systemd and that upstream is a company. Systemd
software is developed by that company, and as you also know is that
contributions, patches and bug reports coming from outside that company
are frown upon. People reporting issues are even met with hostility.

In case you have counterexamples of the above, please give links,
please!

Additionally, software system distributors, like Debian, are fully in
the hands of the upstream. They are merely users of systemd, trying to
tweak the code to create distributions.

I know that there are partial forks of systemd like eudev and elogind,
but such forks should not be needed if upstream created and documented
libraries and APIs so that third-party people could adopt and
contribute their (maybe complementary) software too. But that is not
happening, because if upstream would do that they'd loose their market
advantage.

In conclusion: systemd is a _vendor_ lock-in. Fortunately Guix/Shepherd
are not (yet??) using systemd, but they use e.g. eudev and elogind.

Thank you for your time!

  reply	other threads:[~2019-10-15 19:56 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 60+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20191009065352.GU8197@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found] ` <1c9dc59c-0594-6921-73e8-b173e558b5c3@vapaa.xyz>
2019-10-10  2:37   ` Proposal to remove the off-topic, not free software related thoughtcrime accusations from the Guix project pages on GNU.ORG websitew Jean Louis
2019-10-10 11:39     ` Dmitry Alexandrov
2019-10-10 12:14       ` Jean Louis
2019-10-10 12:14       ` Jean Louis
     [not found]       ` <A1FC0648-04C9-4125-90E5-A4ED6E69128E@gnu.support>
2019-10-10 12:39         ` Dmitry Alexandrov
2019-10-10 12:39         ` Dmitry Alexandrov
     [not found]         ` <5zkw22sb.321942@gmail.com>
2019-10-10 17:48           ` Jean Louis
2019-10-10 17:48           ` Jean Louis
     [not found]           ` <32731221-C09D-4E6B-8642-1600A5D56E64@gnu.support>
2019-10-10 20:29             ` Dmitry Alexandrov
2019-10-10 21:02               ` Jean Louis
     [not found]                 ` <12e09212-a64a-8e92-da5b-e2702e62f4d0@ninthfloor.org>
     [not found]                   ` <73a57e69-4c38-67fc-31f5-32424415fcb1@vapaa.xyz>
     [not found]                     ` <c9b470fe-eafe-35d1-7e43-82f9f240298e@ninthfloor.org>
2019-10-12  9:19                       ` Jean Louis
2019-10-13 13:05                         ` Kete via Discussions about the development of the GNU system
2019-10-13 23:43                           ` Alexandre François Garreau
2019-10-14  6:53                           ` František Kučera
2019-10-14  7:46                             ` Reminder to keep posts on topic Ricardo Wurmus
2019-10-14 15:17                               ` Mikhail Kryshen
2019-10-14 16:14                                 ` Ricardo Wurmus
2019-10-10 16:18       ` Proposal to remove the off-topic, not free software related thoughtcrime accusations from the Guix project pages on GNU.ORG websitew Stefan Huchler
2019-10-10 16:44     ` ng0
2019-10-10 22:23       ` Reminder to remain civil Ricardo Wurmus
2019-10-12  4:19         ` Jens Mølgaard
2019-10-12  8:32           ` Ricardo Wurmus
2019-10-13 19:54             ` Quiliro Ordóñez
2019-10-13 20:07               ` Ricardo Wurmus
2019-10-13 20:18                 ` Quiliro Ordóñez
2019-10-14  7:41                   ` Ricardo Wurmus
2019-10-14 18:26                     ` quiliro
2019-10-14 19:52                       ` Tonton
2019-10-15  0:01                         ` ison
2019-10-15  2:27                           ` Quiliro Ordóñez
2019-10-15  3:08                         ` Quiliro Ordóñez
2019-10-15  4:44                     ` Quiliro Ordóñez
2019-10-11 15:14       ` Proposal to remove the off-topic, not free software related thoughtcrime accusations from the Guix project pages on GNU.ORG websitew Ruben Safir
     [not found]     ` <6343757.2cZvDvYTfs@pc-713>
     [not found]       ` <20191010061705.GH27628@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found]         ` <E1iISGu-0007K1-GD@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]           ` <20191010070606.GW27628@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found]             ` <E1iJLyu-0007MQ-Cf@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found]               ` <E1iJpPR-00015B-9D@fencepost.gnu.org>
2019-10-14 10:07                 ` (Really) Free Software future Was: Re: Proposal to remove the off-topic, Svante Signell
2019-10-14 15:26                   ` Jesse Gibbons
2019-10-14 16:13                   ` Paul Smith
2019-10-14 16:52                     ` (Really) Free Software future Svante Signell
2019-10-14 18:16                       ` Paul Smith
2019-10-14 18:32                         ` Alexander Vdolainen
2019-10-14 18:59                           ` Jesse Gibbons
2019-10-14 19:18                             ` Alexander Vdolainen
2019-10-14 19:35                             ` marinus.savoritias
2019-10-14 20:49                               ` Stefan Huchler
2019-10-19 23:00                                 ` (Really) Free Software future in the light of systemd Dmitry Alexandrov
2019-10-21 17:58                                   ` Jean Louis
2019-12-15  3:23                                     ` Richard Stallman
2019-10-14 19:11                           ` (Really) Free Software future Paul Smith
2019-10-14 19:22                             ` Alexander Vdolainen
2019-10-14 19:11                         ` marinus.savoritias
2019-10-15  2:41                           ` Richard Stallman
2019-10-15 19:56                             ` Svante Signell [this message]
2019-10-15 20:31                               ` marinus.savoritias
2019-10-15 21:00                               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2019-10-16  6:00                               ` Jean Louis
2019-10-16 18:40                                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2019-10-16 18:51                                   ` Jean Louis
2019-10-18  3:10                                 ` Richard Stallman
2019-10-14 18:42                       ` Jesse Gibbons
2019-10-15  9:07                       ` Ricardo Wurmus
     [not found] ` <17462587.SsIznebPcY@pc-713>
     [not found]   ` <20191010102435.GF27628@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found]     ` <4828739.2SfjHLgCXR@pc-713>
2019-10-12 11:37       ` Proposal to remove the off-topic, not free software related thoughtcrime accusations from the Guix project pages on GNU.ORG websitew Jean Louis

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=e316ae4731693745a5919bfa453cb585cbc41cc0.camel@gmail.com \
    --to=svante.signell@gmail.com \
    --cc=Guix-devel@gnu.org \
    --cc=gnu-system-discuss@gnu.org \
    --cc=marinus.savoritias@tuta.io \
    --cc=psmith@gnu.org \
    --cc=rms@gnu.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git

This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.