how can I open files through packages installed in different profiles

how can I open files through packages installed in different profiles

[gfp]

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Hi Guix,

Simple questions

1.
when I want to open a file in KDE Desktop through Dolphin directly, I 
will be asked through which programme/package.

I have many packages installed in different profiles, so the package is 
not mentioned in the possible packages to open this file.

The only way to open a file is, to open the package from the profile 
beforehand,
and after that to open a file in pointing to this package.

This is a disadvantage to have packages installed in different profiles.

How can I bridge/bypass this?

2.
In MATE desktop in Caja and in KDE Dolphin it asks for the "user-defined 
command"
What is the command?
How can I find this package stored in the store, so that I can point to 
it in Dolphin, in the case I haven't opended the package from the 
profile beforehand?
(I don't know if that will help to open a file, if I haven't earlier 
opened this package from a profile)


thanks for help

Gottfried

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Re: how can I open files through packages installed in different profiles

[Steve George]

Hi Gfp,

I would suggest that you do not run multiple profiles simultaneously. You will probably run into problems, since if a library requires an interpreter and it's not in the profile it won't work, and one library will not know about another unless they are in the same profile.

If you like to keep 'sets' of packages separated using manifests then one thing you could do is to create a single 'layered manifest' (super manifest?) by stitching them all together. I wrote a post about it:

https://www.futurile.net/2022/12/23/guix-profiles-layering-at-login/

The 'user defined command' that Dolphin will be what you set for that particular MIME type. If you do a Google search for that, there's quite a few results, such as:

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=293509

Hope that helps a bit

Steve / Futurile

On 15 Nov, gfp wrote:
> Hi Guix,
> 
> Simple questions
> 
> 1.
> when I want to open a file in KDE Desktop through Dolphin directly, I will
> be asked through which programme/package.
> 
> I have many packages installed in different profiles, so the package is not
> mentioned in the possible packages to open this file.
> 
> The only way to open a file is, to open the package from the profile
> beforehand,
> and after that to open a file in pointing to this package.
> 
> This is a disadvantage to have packages installed in different profiles.
> 
> How can I bridge/bypass this?
> 
> 2.
> In MATE desktop in Caja and in KDE Dolphin it asks for the "user-defined
> command"
> What is the command?
> How can I find this package stored in the store, so that I can point to it
> in Dolphin, in the case I haven't opended the package from the profile
> beforehand?
> (I don't know if that will help to open a file, if I haven't earlier opened
> this package from a profile)
> 
> 
> thanks for help
> 
> Gottfried

Re: how can I open files through packages installed in different profiles

[gfp]

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Hi Steve,

1.
thanks for the proposal. I guess it is too difficult for me at the 
moment to deal with your proposal.

2.
Until now I didn´t have any problems with different profiles.
I created profiles through the help of Gary.
He advised me to do that, so that I haven´t too many packages in my 
default profile.

3.
So when starting my laptop I open several packages, which are in 
different created profiles and everything is working well.

4.
I realised now, that, when opening Dolphin (KDE) and want to open a 
file, right click (mouse) it ask me: "open with" , arrow down (right 
side) it doesn´t show up that package with which I want to open this 
file. But when writing e.g. libreoffice it opens the file with 
libreoffice. After doing it once, libreoffice is mentioned in future in 
this list. Interestingly it opens also with a package, which is located 
in an other profile and I haven´t open this profile beforehand.
How that works, I don´t know.

5.
One question remains for me, if I update only one profile and it 
downloads all the necessary dependences, how that works for the other 
profiles which I didn´t update, also for the default profile, if I can 
call it this way.

6.
I can update all the created profiles at once, but very often I update 
only this profile, which has got a new version of one package.
e.g. one profile in which I have: icecat, ungoogled-chromium and torbrowser.

Nevertheless I didn´t have any trouble until now, no conflict between my 
"default" profile and the other, about 15 created profiles.

thanks for help

Gottfried


Am 18.11.24 um 15:58 schrieb Steve George:
> Hi Gfp,
> 
> I would suggest that you do not run multiple profiles simultaneously. You will probably run into problems, since if a library requires an interpreter and it's not in the profile it won't work, and one library will not know about another unless they are in the same profile.
> 
> If you like to keep 'sets' of packages separated using manifests then one thing you could do is to create a single 'layered manifest' (super manifest?) by stitching them all together. I wrote a post about it:
> 
> https://www.futurile.net/2022/12/23/guix-profiles-layering-at-login/
> 
> The 'user defined command' that Dolphin will be what you set for that particular MIME type. If you do a Google search for that, there's quite a few results, such as:
> 
> https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=293509
> 
> Hope that helps a bit
> 
> Steve / Futurile
> 
> On 15 Nov, gfp wrote:
>> Hi Guix,
>>
>> Simple questions
>>
>> 1.
>> when I want to open a file in KDE Desktop through Dolphin directly, I will
>> be asked through which programme/package.
>>
>> I have many packages installed in different profiles, so the package is not
>> mentioned in the possible packages to open this file.
>>
>> The only way to open a file is, to open the package from the profile
>> beforehand,
>> and after that to open a file in pointing to this package.
>>
>> This is a disadvantage to have packages installed in different profiles.
>>
>> How can I bridge/bypass this?
>>
>> 2.
>> In MATE desktop in Caja and in KDE Dolphin it asks for the "user-defined
>> command"
>> What is the command?
>> How can I find this package stored in the store, so that I can point to it
>> in Dolphin, in the case I haven't opended the package from the profile
>> beforehand?
>> (I don't know if that will help to open a file, if I haven't earlier opened
>> this package from a profile)
>>
>>
>> thanks for help
>>
>> Gottfried
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen

G. Preihs

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Re: how can I open files through packages installed in different profiles

[Rutherther]

Fcc: ditigal/sent -unread -inbox
Hi G. Preihs,

> 4.
> I realised now, that, when opening Dolphin (KDE) and want to open a 
> file, right click (mouse) it ask me: "open with" , arrow down (right 
> side) it doesn´t show up that package with which I want to open this 
> file. But when writing e.g. libreoffice it opens the file with 
> libreoffice. After doing it once, libreoffice is mentioned in future in 
> this list. Interestingly it opens also with a package, which is located 
> in an other profile and I haven´t open this profile beforehand.
> How that works, I don´t know.

for this, you can try putting the various profiles' share folder
to XDG_DATA_DIRS environment variable. I suppose you are already
sourcing the environment variables of all the profiles, but unfortunately
XDG_DATA_DIRS is not propagated. There is a longstanding issue that's still
open about stuff like this. Note that your desktop environment needs to have
this environment variable, so you need to export it in something like a .profile
file or otherwise ensure it's in your DE.

> 5.
> One question remains for me, if I update only one profile and it 
> downloads all the necessary dependences, how that works for the other 
> profiles which I didn´t update, also for the default profile, if I can 
> call it this way.

Most packages shouldn't mind about this. Guix puts them to separate store paths,
and since the profiles for the most part do not interact, there shouldn't be many
problems. But there still can be some, like potentially with qt plugins, glibc locales,
and other stuff. Generally potentially anything that needs some environment variables in the profile,
where multiple profiles use the same ones. But that is not to say that every time they overlap there will
be problems. Take PATH, Guix packages are usually patched or wrapped to refer to runtime dependencies
in the store directly, not to take them from PATH.

Regards,
Rutherther
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2024 15:01:43 +0100
Message-ID: <87ldwrr3qw.fsf@ditigal.xyz>

Re: how can I open files through packages installed in different profiles

[gfp]

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Hi,

thanks for your explanation.

> for this, you can try putting the various profiles' share folder
>> to XDG_DATA_DIRS environment variable.

How can I do this?

I am using MATE desktop mainly (more shortcuts) and sometimes KDE (less 
shortcuts for me at the moment).

> Note that your desktop environment needs to have
>> this environment variable, so you need to export it in something like a .profile
>> file or otherwise ensure it's in your DE.

Please explain it more, I am on a lower level.

thanks
Gottfried


Am 07.12.24 um 15:02 schrieb Rutherther:
> 
> Fcc: ditigal/sent -unread -inbox
> Hi G. Preihs,
> 
>> 4.
>> I realised now, that, when opening Dolphin (KDE) and want to open a
>> file, right click (mouse) it ask me: "open with" , arrow down (right
>> side) it doesn´t show up that package with which I want to open this
>> file. But when writing e.g. libreoffice it opens the file with
>> libreoffice. After doing it once, libreoffice is mentioned in future in
>> this list. Interestingly it opens also with a package, which is located
>> in an other profile and I haven´t open this profile beforehand.
>> How that works, I don´t know.
> 
> for this, you can try putting the various profiles' share folder
> to XDG_DATA_DIRS environment variable. I suppose you are already
> sourcing the environment variables of all the profiles, but unfortunately
> XDG_DATA_DIRS is not propagated. There is a longstanding issue that's still
> open about stuff like this. Note that your desktop environment needs to have
> this environment variable, so you need to export it in something like a .profile
> file or otherwise ensure it's in your DE.
> 
>> 5.
>> One question remains for me, if I update only one profile and it
>> downloads all the necessary dependences, how that works for the other
>> profiles which I didn´t update, also for the default profile, if I can
>> call it this way.
> 
> Most packages shouldn't mind about this. Guix puts them to separate store paths,
> and since the profiles for the most part do not interact, there shouldn't be many
> problems. But there still can be some, like potentially with qt plugins, glibc locales,
> and other stuff. Generally potentially anything that needs some environment variables in the profile,
> where multiple profiles use the same ones. But that is not to say that every time they overlap there will
> be problems. Take PATH, Guix packages are usually patched or wrapped to refer to runtime dependencies
> in the store directly, not to take them from PATH.
> 
> Regards,
> Rutherther
> Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2024 15:01:43 +0100
> Message-ID: <87ldwrr3qw.fsf@ditigal.xyz>



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Re: how can I open files through packages installed in different profiles

[Rutherther]

gfp <gfp@posteo.at> writes:

> How can I do this?
>
> I am using MATE desktop mainly (more shortcuts) and sometimes KDE (less 
> shortcuts for me at the moment).
> Please explain it more, I am on a lower level.

What is your shell? Let's say it's bash. Bash uses either
~/.bash_profile if it exists, or falls back to ~/.profile.
To export a environment variable from it means to
`export XDG_DATA_DIRS=$HOME/path/to/your/profile1:$HOME/path/to/your/profile2:$XDG_DATA_DIRS`,
and so on. If you are using other shell, check your shell's manual for
the profile it uses.

If you are using guix home, you can use
home-environment-variables-service-type, it will put it to the correct
place, where it will be sourced from the profile file. Examples
are in the manual.

Regards,
Rutherther

Re: how can I open files through packages installed in different profiles

[gfp]

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Hi,
thanks for help.

> What is your shell? Let's say it's bash. Bash uses either
>> ~/.bash_profile if it exists, or falls back to ~/.profile.
>> To export a environment variable from it means to
>> `export XDG_DATA_DIRS=$HOME/path/to/your/profile1:$HOME/path/to/your/profile2:$XDG_DATA_DIRS`,
>> and so on. If you are using other shell, check your shell's manual for
>> the profile it uses.

I have got bash.
~/.bash_profile:
--------------------------------------------
# Honor per-interactive-shell startup file
if [ -f ~/.bashrc ]; then . ~/.bashrc; fi

GUIX_EXTRA_PROFILES=/home/gfp/Projekte
for i in $GUIX_EXTRA_PROFILES/*; do
   profile=$i/guix-profil
   if [ -f "$profile"/etc/profile ]; then
     GUIX_PROFILE="$profile"
     . "$GUIX_PROFILE"/etc/profile
   fi
   unset profile
done
-----------------------------------------

 >> `export 
XDG_DATA_DIRS=$HOME/path/to/your/profile1:$HOME/path/to/your/profile2:$XDG_DATA_DIRS`,
 >> and so on.

I have got 17 Profiles in:
/home/gfp/Projekte/Calibre
		  /Emacs
		  /Libreoffice	
		  etc.

  Would that mean to sorce all 17 profiles in one go?
or only two at a time?

e.g. two profiles:

`export 
XDG_DATA_DIRS=$HOME/gfp/Projekte/Calibre:$HOME/gfp/Projekte/Emacs:$XDG_DATA_DIRS` 



I don´t want to make a mistake that´s why I am asking beforehand.

Thanks

Gottfried



Am 07.12.24 um 21:09 schrieb Rutherther:
> gfp <gfp@posteo.at> writes:
> 
>> How can I do this?
>>
>> I am using MATE desktop mainly (more shortcuts) and sometimes KDE (less
>> shortcuts for me at the moment).
>> Please explain it more, I am on a lower level.
> 
> What is your shell? Let's say it's bash. Bash uses either
> ~/.bash_profile if it exists, or falls back to ~/.profile.
> To export a environment variable from it means to
> `export XDG_DATA_DIRS=$HOME/path/to/your/profile1:$HOME/path/to/your/profile2:$XDG_DATA_DIRS`,
> and so on. If you are using other shell, check your shell's manual for
> the profile it uses.
> 
> If you are using guix home, you can use
> home-environment-variables-service-type, it will put it to the correct
> place, where it will be sourced from the profile file. Examples
> are in the manual.
> 
> Regards,
> Rutherther



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Re: how can I open files through packages installed in different profiles

[Rutherther]

>   Would that mean to sorce all 17 profiles in one go?
> or only two at a time?
>
> e.g. two profiles:
>
> `export 
> XDG_DATA_DIRS=$HOME/gfp/Projekte/Calibre:$HOME/gfp/Projekte/Emacs:$XDG_DATA_DIRS` 
>
>
>
> I don´t want to make a mistake that´s why I am asking beforehand.
>

It's up to you, can be one profile per line, can be 17 in one go. Just
separate them with `:`. Make sure to refer to the share folder of the
profile, not the profile itself. Ie. `$HOME/gfp/Projekte/Calibre/share`.
As you have a `for` for all of your profiles, maybe it would make sense
to always prepend the project share folders one by one in there.

Regards,
Rutherther

Re: how can I open files through packages installed in different profiles

[Ian Eure]

Hi gfp,

gfp <gfp@posteo.at> writes:

> I have got 17 Profiles in:
> /home/gfp/Projekte/Calibre
> 		  /Emacs
> 		  /Libreoffice
> 		  etc.
>
>  Would that mean to sorce all 17 profiles in one go? or only two 
>  at a time?

I agree with Steve: you shouldn’t use profiles like this.  By 
activating all these profiles at once, you’re effectively creating 
a single profile with the combined packages of all 17.  But since 
this is done in an ad-hoc way, outside Guix, it’s missing 
functionality, such as telling you about conflicts, building the 
XDG MIME database, font cache, etc.  This is very likely going to 
cause further bugs and problems.

If you put the software you regularly use into your main profile, 
the system works better and your problem goes away without needing 
to mess with shell startup.

Engineering is all about making tradeoffs.  With the downsides 
you’ve noted, and the complexity of managing it, I’d expect there 
to be a very strong and specific upside from such a system which 
can’t be replicated with a one-profile setup.  I may have missed 
it, but I don’t see such a rationale here.

I strongly urge you to reconsider your approach.

  -- Ian

Re: how can I open files through packages installed in different profiles

[gfp]

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Hi,

thanks for explaining more.

> `export XDG_DATA_DIRS=$HOME/gfp/Projekte/Calibre:$HOME/gfp/Projekte/Emacs:$XDG_DATA_DIRS`


I would have to write: `export 
XDG_DATA_DIRS=$HOME/gfp/Projekte/Calibre/guix-profile/share:$HOME/gfp/Projekte/Emacs/guix-profile/share:$XDG_DATA_DIRS`
because In every profile I have got:
/Projekte/Emacs/guix-profile/share
/Projekte/Calibre/guix-profile/share

> As you have a `for` for all of your profiles, maybe it would make sense to always prepend the project share folders one by one in there.

Unfortunately I don´t understand this sentence. Sorry.

Regards,

Gottfried


Am 08.12.24 um 22:19 schrieb Rutherther:
> 
>>    Would that mean to sorce all 17 profiles in one go?
>> or only two at a time?
>>
>> e.g. two profiles:
>>
>> `export
>> XDG_DATA_DIRS=$HOME/gfp/Projekte/Calibre:$HOME/gfp/Projekte/Emacs:$XDG_DATA_DIRS`
>>
>>
>>
>> I don´t want to make a mistake that´s why I am asking beforehand.
>>
> 
> It's up to you, can be one profile per line, can be 17 in one go. Just
> separate them with `:`. Make sure to refer to the share folder of the
> profile, not the profile itself. Ie. `$HOME/gfp/Projekte/Calibre/share`.
> As you have a `for` for all of your profiles, maybe it would make sense
> to always prepend the project share folders one by one in there.
> 
> Regards,
> Rutherther



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Re: how can I open files through packages installed in different profiles

[gfp]

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Hi,

1.
Approx. 2 years ago some Guixers proposed to create profiles in order to 
have not too many packages in the main profile, which makes it easier to 
update the profile. If during updating the profile one package creates 
trouble, the whole updating process stops. I had those trouble several 
times.

2.
If I put all packages in the main profile, I would have approx. 30 
packages more and altogether approx. 120 packages at the moment, and 
there will be more in future.
I don´t use "guix home"

3.
May be those Guixers have special needs and it works easier for them.
Of course, those Guixers know what they are doing unlike me.

4.
If I had all packages in my main profile, would it be possible to update 
only some packages?
e.g. icecat and others quite regularly are updated, so it would be good 
to update them more often.

thanks for your help

Gottfried



Am 09.12.24 um 18:15 schrieb Ian Eure:
> Hi gfp,
> 
> gfp <gfp@posteo.at> writes:
> 
>> I have got 17 Profiles in:
>> /home/gfp/Projekte/Calibre
>>           /Emacs
>>           /Libreoffice
>>           etc.
>>
>>  Would that mean to sorce all 17 profiles in one go? or only two  at a 
>> time?
> 
> I agree with Steve: you shouldn’t use profiles like this.  By activating 
> all these profiles at once, you’re effectively creating a single profile 
> with the combined packages of all 17.  But since this is done in an 
> ad-hoc way, outside Guix, it’s missing functionality, such as telling 
> you about conflicts, building the XDG MIME database, font cache, etc.  
> This is very likely going to cause further bugs and problems.
> 
> If you put the software you regularly use into your main profile, the 
> system works better and your problem goes away without needing to mess 
> with shell startup.
> 
> Engineering is all about making tradeoffs.  With the downsides you’ve 
> noted, and the complexity of managing it, I’d expect there to be a very 
> strong and specific upside from such a system which can’t be replicated 
> with a one-profile setup.  I may have missed it, but I don’t see such a 
> rationale here.
> 
> I strongly urge you to reconsider your approach.
> 
>   -- Ian



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Re: how can I open files through packages installed in different profiles

[Ian Eure]

gfp <gfp@posteo.at> writes:

> Hi,
>
> 1.
> Approx. 2 years ago some Guixers proposed to create profiles in 
> order
> to have not too many packages in the main profile, which makes 
> it
> easier to update the profile. If during updating the profile one
> package creates trouble, the whole updating process stops. I had 
> those
> trouble several times.
>

What kinds of problems?

Guix is a transactional package manager, so one failure must halt 
the operation it occurred within.  This is one of the tradeoffs of 
the Guix system, and it certainly can lead to some annoying 
situations.  If it’s a major problem for you, you might consider 
another distro, or using Guix on a foreign distro, where you let 
the other package management system handle some of the software.

> 2.
> If I put all packages in the main profile, I would have 
> approx. 30
> packages more and altogether approx. 120 packages at the moment, 
> and
> there will be more in future.
>

That seems fine.

> 3.
> May be those Guixers have special needs and it works easier for 
> them.
> Of course, those Guixers know what they are doing unlike me.
>

One of the best things about Guix is how you can tailor it to your 
tastes!  I would definitely recommend experimenting a bit to find 
something that works for you.


> 4.
> If I had all packages in my main profile, would it be possible 
> to
> update only some packages?
>

I believe `guix package -u package-name-or-regexp' will do what 
you want, but can’t test it.


> e.g. icecat and others quite regularly are updated, so it would 
> be
> good to update them more often.
>

Note also that by not updating packages in profiles, you’re 
increasing the number of vulnerabilites you’re subject to (and 
making it harder to update to fix them).  For example, if an 
OpenSSL vuln is patched, and two of your profiles have packages 
which need the library, they’ll remain vulnerable until you 
upgrade within those profiles.

  -- Ian

Re: how can I open files through packages installed in different profiles

[Andreas Enge]

Am Mon, Dec 09, 2024 at 07:25:58PM +0000 schrieb gfp:
> If I had all packages in my main profile, would it be possible to update
> only some packages?
> e.g. icecat and others quite regularly are updated, so it would be good to
> update them more often.

To complement Ian's reply, this is perfectly possible.
For instance,
   guix package -u icecat
will upgrade only icecat.
   guix package --do-not-upgrade ungoogled-chromium -u .
will upgrade all packages except for ungoogled-chromium (which can be
useful when there is no binary substitute yet and you prefer waiting a
bit more instead of compiling it locally).

Personally, I have all my software in one profile (about 90 packages),
and do not experience any problem.

If I need a different software just occasionally, I use
   guix shell this-other-software

Andreas