From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: L p R n d n Subject: Re: Communication and Design at Guix Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:58:48 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87k1jfuk26.fsf@gnu.org> <875zus1b2t.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56202) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gk4Rx-0004xD-N9 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 04:59:03 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gk4Rv-0007ux-SR for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 04:59:01 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.142]:43089) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gk4Rt-0007j5-RJ for guix-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 04:58:59 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 177172400E5 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:58:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 43gKKQ1CTQz9rxG for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2019 10:58:49 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (George Clemmer's message of "Wed, 16 Jan 2019 11:31:41 -0500") List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: guix-devel@gnu.org Hello, Thanks for your feedbacks! George Clemmer writes: > Hi Lprndn, > > I am glad to see your interest in these issues. > > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > >> Hi, >> >> L p R n d n skribis: >> >>> Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: >> >> [...] >> >>>> A very concrete task that could be of interest to you is the =E2=80=9C= name >>>> change=E2=80=9D (a bit of a strong word) that we=E2=80=99d like to imp= lement by 1.0. >>>> I=E2=80=99ll try to summarize. Currently we have =E2=80=9CGuix=E2=80= =9D and =E2=80=9CGuixSD=E2=80=9D, and that >>>> confuses things: people visit the web site, they see a =E2=80=9CGuixSD= =E2=80=9D logo and >>>> get confused because they were just looking for a package manager, not= a >>>> whole distro, or they think =E2=80=9CGuixSD=E2=80=9D is a storage devi= ce ;-), things >>>> like that. >>>> >>>> The idea is to bring everything under the =E2=80=9CGuix=E2=80=9D name.= Most of the >>>> time, writing =E2=80=9CGuix=E2=80=9D is good enough=E2=80=94after all,= one can run =E2=80=98guix system=E2=80=99 >>>> on a foreign distro, too. When we really need to make the distinction, >>>> for instance in the manual, we would write =E2=80=9CGuix System=E2=80= =9D to designate >>>> what we currently call =E2=80=9CGuixSD=E2=80=9D. >>> >>> Hum. It might just be as easy as getting rid of the GuixSD logo and >>> wording for the most part. Then we can find a *preferred* way to >>> designate GuixSD (a Guix system (probably), Guix distro, Guix os).Here, >>> it's more about making GuixSD "disappear" but we could also just rebrand >>> GuixSD with some kind of "subtitle": "Guix, the system", derive a logo >>> from the Guix's one. It depends a lot from what we want to put under >>> the spotlight. >> >> The idea is more to have a single =E2=80=9Cbrand=E2=80=9D: Guix. > > Yes a single brand is the way to go. But, piecemeal changes to the web > site are unlikely to get us there unless we work from a unified "Guix > Brand" product description. E.g., earlier I proposed ... > > "'Guix' is a software environment manager that creates user environments > that are completely and independently specified by users. Guix users are > never stuck needing software that a Sysadmin can't, won't, or hasn't > installed. A Guix user can run multiple, differing environments > simultaneously and can replicate any environment on any Guix run-time > platform. Guix provides system-wide environment management when > appropriate to the run-time platform. Creation, modification, and > upgrade are atomic and roll-back is instantaneous, so Guix users and > sysadmins are never stuck with a broken user environment or system. > Guix implements a functional specification of package, user, and system > configurations using the Scheme language. Guix complies with the FSF > Four Essential Freedoms and Free System Distribution Guidelines and > provides easy and immediate access to the exact source being run. By > default, Guix uses pre-built package substitutes from the Guix build > farm and mirrors but users may build any package, or a complete system, > from package developer sources."[1] Yeah, I didn't totally get the single "brand" Guix, at first. ;) This paragraph is nice! It's probably usable as is but I think it could benefits from a little refactoring (multiple parts by usecase or possible user?). I'll try to give it a go if you don't mind. >> Then =E2=80=9CGuix System=E2=80=9D would be a component of Guix, so to s= peak, similar >> to GNOME and its applications. > > "Guix System" is a "bad" name for "GuixSD." Why? Because a new user's > first expectation is for "Guix system" to refer to the whole of Guix, > which we want to call "Guix" (referred to as "Guix Brand" below). > > But if we call GuixSD the "Guix System", we create a counter-intuitive > thing to explain. E.g., we will be saying, "Our GNU/Linux System > Distribution, 'Guix System' is just one of multiple ways to use 'Guix > Brand', which includes the Guix package manager, for which we also use > the 'Guix Brand' label. > > Another "bad" thing about calling it "Guix system" is that when a user > searches "guix system" they hit the 'guix system' "Guix Brand" package > manager' command that, BTW, also generates "Guix VMs". > > It will simplify our work if we present GuixSD as simply one of several > Guix download/deployment options. E.g., earlier I suggested ... > > "Guix is available on multiple run-time platforms including bare metal > (GuixSD), Virtual Machines (QEMU image), and any GNU/Linux distro (Guix > Binary).[1]" > > With this approach, we only need a distinctive label for GuixSD that > doesn't puzzle users to produce reliable search hits on the relevant > parts of our message and documentation. E.g., GuixOS. I understand.=20 Currently, I'm searching for some kind of one liner to describe Guix. Something that quickly describe what Guix is. In your previous paragraph you use "software environment manager". Personnaly, I can't say if it works, I don't think I have the necessary knowledge to get it. If other guix users thinks it's easily understandable it should be ok. Otherwise, I was more with things like this: Guix is ... ... a package and system manager. (A seen previously, system manager is too wide) ... a package manager and machine administrator. ... a package and machine administrator. ... a package and environment manager.=20 WDYT? If anyone has an idea, don't be shy :) I'd like to keep the "package manager" part as it'll probably ring a bell to any linux user and helps understand the not so familiar part (system/environment dealing). > HTH - George > > [1] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2018-01/msg00444.html Have a nice day, Lprndn