From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id CENRJ0dk1mD7PgAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 01:18:31 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id 4B4BI0dk1mBrVQAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 23:18:31 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 58F828530 for ; Sat, 26 Jun 2021 01:18:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:56790 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lwv5f-0004if-Pd for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 19:18:27 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46912) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lwv5W-0004iW-0W for help-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 19:18:18 -0400 Received: from libre.brussels ([144.76.234.112]:44252) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lwv5T-0002tm-QQ for help-guix@gnu.org; Fri, 25 Jun 2021 19:18:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=libre.brussels; s=mail; t=1624663091; h=from:from:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=1LKezQq6/fTd/SmMrruaQauCvY+nK4pLxjuG3qSy3Ic=; b=fvIzX+TDX7xJITsz+JXpOfSmk3UHMSdB6pz4a2hLlOsM3xny7u5R+bdnlpvdL3NBqY3Xdp VrElqPdj4LSGsHHOqmp2af8xQyyClRvFetwfmey67miKer49w0JtQCEOAifvad/c8+Quqr ivZC1140bBOin/JBaLe4IYYpYqI0oA4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 23:18:11 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: indieterminacy@libre.brussels Message-ID: Subject: Re: package manager guix on Windows and OSX To: jbranso@dismail.de In-Reply-To: <999d14a56998b787056467406ba6c9c2@dismail.de> References: <999d14a56998b787056467406ba6c9c2@dismail.de> <87wnqh3kc3.fsf@libre.brussels> <87y2azyw0g.fsf@disroot.org> <87fsx686kv.fsf@rdklein.fr> <871r8px48s.fsf@dismail.de> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=144.76.234.112; envelope-from=indieterminacy@libre.brussels; helo=libre.brussels X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-guix@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Edouard Klein , help-guix@gnu.org Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1624663110; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=1LKezQq6/fTd/SmMrruaQauCvY+nK4pLxjuG3qSy3Ic=; b=F7tlLDimcLUosrDPbiDLvip02aHMcR+62/qnyeLg0mOnaHtnJWh27OdjB/MpjknRGpd8H2 dBqLNd+ZgaFMHIZQtq3Tn+bsOIYymzUCuPirc7S9WBJh1m3ayOlRdunRRp7txBfjzw0xYY 2C8lLQhHy0nChI3703aW1mIC06hJWlplAPzWe7w+bg3gLTPXZIXwzjn9Pa1nRzcYsgtYFx 0xawxFe8zjuCWnAnmzP0cUJgZjAWuefMkMnH1RSEfzkT+J8rmtcwsyZMVXvL1KeYPTGmIC MEYggTxUjGThaIkAmHGg6Ol2WfrEMUgXysAcVAJt4cvdpjWZ2ijUphRIrpx1rg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1624663110; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=cyFD8PLQsdvGjoRRMo/eEqY+GQCw4X542O3A4tvspfmnHKnFK+OMaDq45R02eBBlM5+EvA 1p8s85f0cmiP5Yem9Z6Gll8TGDtB6Vy8bOUj5OzLwurtQi123tO2KbPtQEVBVe79p8cbeQ I6sCFN7G7o5+chriF0x5x1OR2VvfnMFhMJ6gQ70cU58B9anMTtY6tapNW+fh1UYJgKZn7w yh2tL/ScHEHvfcY+U6PR59gd62Ugfw7v07OWhi8AN6+zdCn6BoG78TbJHJRI15esanP6hG 7rzUzH+oaBsDy9XWCihfqZQcqboR66OvYK5JeDke2XHX2ySQQUJRQybR3+ycqA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=libre.brussels header.s=mail header.b=fvIzX+TD; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of help-guix-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=help-guix-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.33 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=libre.brussels header.s=mail header.b=fvIzX+TD; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=libre.brussels (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of help-guix-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=help-guix-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 58F828530 X-Spam-Score: -1.33 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: GTRcaR0OpItK There are many bawdy jokes Id like to make concerning that citation.=20 June=2025, 2021 10:56 PM, jbranso@dismail.de wrote: > That and their software is top notch! Linus called their developers > "masturbating monkeys", because of their obsessive pursuit of security! > hahaha. At every shutdown, the OpenBSD kernel is re-linked. It's the sa= me > kernel when you reboot it, but the binary is re-ordered. That's amazing= ! Yes, they are highly capable and ambitious. I picked up that information, having researched Hyperbola... based upon y= our prompt. >> Additionally, while I understand that MIT is in many ways deficient >> compared to GPL licenses, if not pernicious and counterproductive I do >> empathise regarding why networking engineers may prefer having a licen= ce >> which permits encapsulation more readily. >=20 >=20Well, what is interesting, is that the HyperbolaBSD developers intend= to > rewrite 20% of the BSD kernel and license the whole project GPL. :) >=20 >=20My personal feeling is that GNU should adopt Org mode as their docume= ntation > standard. It's slightly easier to use than texinfo. Thought texinfo is > pretty rad. :) I love Latex, Context, I feel a bit weird for not having dabbled with Tex= info. Im not sure Texinfo is going to sway enough younger programmers (Im= neither young nor old), I fear too many have been malconditioned into ac= cepting delible communication techniques - Texinfo may no longer cut it. I would consider Org mode to probably be the most acceptable default, tho= ugh in many respects Skribilo could be more of a purer expression of a co= mplete Guix approach. Are the aforementioned all different ways of dissua= ding people from considering Guix or documenting for it? FYI, I have been wading into the Gemini protocol the last two months. Bey= ond its more noticable security and publishing advantages, I have been en= tranced by the terseness of its Gem .gmi (minimalist MarkDown) format. I = consider it has crossover appeal (as least between documenting power user= s across OSes). FYI, the OpenBSD crowd seem to have the lead in the Gemin= i space - but this is presumable for the protocol rather than the markdow= n. Since then I stopped annotating in Orgmode and will be building workflows= to (eventually?) approximate a lot of Orgmode functionality. Obviously O= rgmode is awesome but I wonder if it is too designed around individual wo= rkflows and procedures - where greater payoff comes from pooled workflows= and procedures. I had success/pleaseure converting from .gem to .org formats with this ex= perimentation (concerning annotations for a Guix CWL blog post) =3D> https://git.sr.ht/~indieterminacy/q1q20hqh_kq_oq_parsing_gem_zsh/tre= e >From the tree you can see that it is feasible to output to *tex* or *html= * formats, using simple REGEX foo. Additionally there is an unfinished attempt at exporting to (sic) Skribil= o. (You may want to ignore the potentially impenitrable annotations, which c= oncerns a 'Recursive Modelling Language' Ive been working on - it would c= ertainly confuse this topic) I would be happy if Guix writing was done with minimal Gem markup but wit= h heavy Lisp usage for interpretation, synthesis, collection and publishi= ng of content. I had originally taken the approach that there should be T= ex heavy markup first and then simplified transposing into other formats = later. Now Im on the other end of the horseshoe. I miss experimenting with regards to Tikz as a mechanism for generating g= raphics. I understand why other tools are used and ho programmers tend to= seemingly think in terms of characters. It bothers me that I do not have= beautiful graph displays representing my environment - to consider thing= s from an impressionistic viewpoint and a contrast to text-editor/browser= dualism. I suspect it isnt insurmountable and could allow visually minde= d people to not feel aggrieved by TUIscapes. > What do you mean by: >=20 >>=20empathise regarding why networking engineers may prefer having a lic= ence >> which permits encapsulation more readily. I mean: the MIT license allows you to operate in a commercial setting, wh= ereby only the binaries are provided, without the requirement to provid= e the source content. While I normally am against this, an OpenBSD networ= king head has explained to me how there would be usecases where this woul= d be useful - if only to provide the commercial breathing space for niche= projects. I probably should stop paraphrasing this person now. Jonathan McHugh indieterminacy@libre.brussels