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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1674031481; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=oO0gUX3ZsIcPUrPn2OiHAjYjjrRuLD/5s9XxQcjKTZBisD5wEInKluKvalN0okFlcl+RDV ROoAwi1JDinVYZ3ju9BkLitTz902W5R+psrY9gYuPIl3LYcX1DbIt/9zyNwkMbqimSNA/Y zfm4/608PA4GrYAdMfbtYCgqxvY1mfKE1AGuaeiiZNR7eQ6jqmF8WjLCgbc+pz7irwQd+Y lK1XTA2NOtE+LAD9X3+hsg3gT9eJCOnKEftwWEHptKgtteA0kL9xG2tyjhqUx0sUmPl5p/ sxmZlbmdSRmFY9DVlfH9n+WsoAlw7zbKZr3kLdTVsxb4+UISNN5BC9kI1ASJFQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=libre.brussels header.s=mail header.b=nn2NPauB; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=libre.brussels; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1674031481; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=2O4QDO7MR4yflbmYfsg4kXeAOXsQKmh/xOAMgCspK9w=; b=UGPnz/ZhZbTXmHgXgMaJZrTkfSv+wG8OpH1dNe+yoQPfMajY08Ah3xs8K8Pa/oW8Kxcuaa 4FDFea3KE3Y+I28jH6B8MAItPV1F73Q4iA2pd001FgT0dfI0qEY4ohB2u9reKAR0No6FkK Stbl9G/I5DO/3lah9Frult5NKjh/DNxVKQWuDkDk4NUhvJlVXro0vka/vn/23wtSwVx4FZ a5hZbSUbcm4gDpu+2nB95R9fQqVYlEgbdmjDpWoXSGQe7WmjsRBbNfqL9SetESs6zn0JhU VR4n+8DhP7KzmVKNacxeV9yXhKzV/QbzsCuLOhPPvKSYfLFyf4cKetEKfNHD0w== X-Spam-Score: -7.93 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 3300AFCD5 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=libre.brussels header.s=mail header.b=nn2NPauB; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=libre.brussels; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.93 X-TUID: Kug1OQujTl6v On 18-01-2023 03:41, kiasoc5 wrote: > On 1/17/23 11:25, Ludovic Courtès wrote: >> >> There are slight increases of each and every package, and there are >> also >> new big dependencies being pulled in for what, from a distance, >> doesn’t >> really add functionality. >> >> Examples include libgccjit in Emacs and mozjs in polkit. >> >> In a way, that’s the “unavoidable” (?) evolution of software, and the >> problem extends largely beyond Guix. >> >> Still, even compared to contemporary distros, we’re doing pretty bad. >> Debian most likely does better, and people often cite Alpine as the >> distro providing the smallest packages. Do we have figures? What can >> we learn from them? What tradeoffs to they make? > > We can achieve smaller packages by splitting them more. Here is my > guess of the amount of package splitting by some distros, from least to > most: > > Slackware < Arch < Fedora < Debian < Alpine > > - Slackware I believe does not split anything, everything is included. > - Arch splits packages on a case by case basis (QEMU for example) > - Fedora typically splits packages into package X and package X-devel, > where X contains development headers, but usually not more. > - Debian splits packages more aggressively. For example libreoffice is > split into 6 packages, 1 for each suite (draw, write, etc). And > programs may be separated from their outputs (eg zstd and libzstd are > split) > - Alpine splits even more aggressively, they also split out man pages > and shell completions. > > We may wish to utilize multiple package outputs to a greater extent. > Some Guix packages already have bin, doc, and lib outputs. We could > make it a policy to split this for all packages. > > I also wonder how much of the space is taken by debug output. Would > making graft derivations substitutable help? > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-guix/2022-10/msg00225.html I think Guix is missing a trick here. All this effort to chain everything with inputs and yet we are using conventional 'package-boxes'. Why not 'Dutch Auction' it and set a maximum amount of inheritants within one package file and then iteratively lower the threshhold (over time!) until there are noises in the guix-devel ML that this principal is being taken far. The outcome could allow more of a layers and multifaceted representation of tools and applications that give more of a distinction between lower level utilities and applications. -- Jonathan McHugh indieterminacy@libre.brussels