From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:403:4876::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms13.migadu.com with LMTPS id oCZADQdlH2eVGgAAqHPOHw:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:18:47 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:403:4876::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0.migadu.com with LMTPS id oCZADQdlH2eVGgAAqHPOHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2024 11:18:47 +0100 X-Envelope-To: larch@yhetil.org Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=in1tSPIn; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1730110727; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=qpsKsE157sibf6Xs6I+Mt0Jz+qxZNCP+mPWQee/BXzYmRNCdJ5hTVoTMTUuv8Zl45lTGM9 hqqoABSRB3UzWZi0J/qrQe+1NPSVDz0DwF5fKv8GqgzNULurvReaHKuAz7Odnn6L0/mb53 mGBG0QxaqcPGyw3ImMvWQOZ2L6haLvnAwRZ4QC5iFBKZYR6xMlvepq1iX2Ji5L/6ELDvnO 1R/6Wn/F93sijt60UU8yQ1kpCgj7NKyQWr+nnYPTayYB26ClUhxU3qoqckZgm6EViKeYr2 bpNYe91/Pnb5dqmKxhEE6SfZwqHTLctsfkbATYBxmA9TB1Be/1ibhxjuYX0tHQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=in1tSPIn; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1730110727; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=ho81uYRt1Z/A3/dGOZRjn1+mxt2MTvXu8xmmqXAQcE4=; b=Sjaq9jt0YVbwH0G9lnuGGAJoA+kmW4xBDvW69u7v3E0DapoGhizmsSbQkQVdEP1xrHkFYA KaY3Y0mPa3jxv0+cp3JIcoqmHaJI5iG0CvZxaKDRmZhjCxmZL1HWM56EAgL4MBt5ToKosV 4V2nPfGrA7i2Lg6SvhY7gFkoCTLdyJ4vFP/mF4OeVfx5myjKWNy1i7morkNgpZZTTGJvB4 q2qlwrgclZuOgimLVQlFT/skLyzmqlLxaaK+bztWU7sPxNfz7CbXSpN61suF5VG+7TteFV drmbwTNJ5MR7uVH/nriz1XnoiQmx+X/64GMOjynijlwQcnmwdIIPtLZzhp6zfw== Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1358B744BC for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2024 11:18:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t5MpO-0002Sj-Ud; Mon, 28 Oct 2024 06:18:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t5MpN-0002Sb-UK for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2024 06:18:25 -0400 Received: from mail-ej1-x635.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::635]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t5MpK-0005s8-R6 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Oct 2024 06:18:24 -0400 Received: by mail-ej1-x635.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-a9a977d6cc7so290342366b.3 for ; Mon, 28 Oct 2024 03:18:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1730110701; x=1730715501; darn=gnu.org; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references :mail-followup-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:sender:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ho81uYRt1Z/A3/dGOZRjn1+mxt2MTvXu8xmmqXAQcE4=; b=in1tSPIn0dAvX6LFJcD34ydBlg+UzBbqfm9yjEFNqFB6LAxwriWt5YDspQTLYBMBBG LCqT8H/BreOL6H7aWtq+XHW5n4nI+C8jlH8CV7n0dRppnbgBRcoTqFRlat+jvC6bIvdh AA+L7I80E48uujsaC1xGbLVmn6hE2Kq+WW3OWjbfMvVrjUxhuo0PoAm7PNmwGwcOHKtu 8N436jWHQLNjPTwF1SIlGkvjdwY3wN0HOEz4EHtXn2YgX9k7dULUqgGnFkfdJAR0kj1S z71XnWJlCs72G7w91s9Gpod2nCfBb1D/bseBFAs21W33wR6OnDmB8MqOgBzFNt9fCdEm bm+g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1730110701; x=1730715501; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references :mail-followup-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:sender :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=ho81uYRt1Z/A3/dGOZRjn1+mxt2MTvXu8xmmqXAQcE4=; b=TdlcryQ05rc3TJbcj310oGzMzeWjEmkluVS8OK1lQkmO0mGzaVLa61X6C9r5ehzYL7 gcyfV65YJxcsxmt4tzdn5L7wCWyhdLkh5znHMRPkh6FdsEkZvFj0+5v6FgZYCyCEdopi HoKGlI+S2AEs9JhQM3Sj8ffRyWDY23dkRoLC0RyPuuwxgCXMoPsUiGJ+4nC6HezYyqu2 e84jpCGd/4mH84o+et/zlut38iXVFR7BMtHliMdnCoS4ZXrnbaBX7BOKDRs3Pwg1olD5 Zlnw167m9AF2M09l05+LretMqGD65FjHJp2mlS/bJgYoGhcf6j/nwuKAvZvX/MnEnwwz wMcQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yzt6+3Eks1EjemsucsI0ylz11Y/Zne4KtvVaTiFHSZgMl5SFAGf 9DCeIrSeGJB0q5/e3g9/OGCgAG6uQ3dGC5DSFBs7qWTrUvM41Hln+sR0KPvm X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHRFNlnZZ/l814X2qMshdEwt1kbOEbVp3W3Z0dbh/Nhf1pHhX3RsvtS+eikRgXHMdkcFLuF+g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:278e:b0:5c9:5745:de9a with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5cbbf8a40c4mr7396745a12.9.1730110700926; Mon, 28 Oct 2024 03:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([141.226.162.35]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5cbb63475casm3064326a12.88.2024.10.28.03.18.19 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 28 Oct 2024 03:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2024 12:18:15 +0200 From: Efraim Flashner To: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, Attila Lendvai , Felix Lechner Subject: Re: Why "update substitutes?" Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice , guix-devel@gnu.org, Attila Lendvai , Felix Lechner References: <87a5er6h5l.fsf@lease-up.com> <80241358-D007-4744-A311-B94873D6AD8A@tobias.gr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="XmcSSuYoLgiO508W" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <80241358-D007-4744-A311-B94873D6AD8A@tobias.gr> X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x41AAE7DCCA3D8351 X-PGP-Key: https://flashner.co.il/~efraim/efraim_flashner.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::635; envelope-from=efraim.flashner@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x635.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.96 X-Spam-Score: -0.96 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 1358B744BC X-Migadu-Scanner: mx10.migadu.com X-TUID: ACMssAwL8vFD --XmcSSuYoLgiO508W Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Oct 26, 2024 at 05:07:21PM +0000, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice wrote: > Hi Attila, >=20 > On 25 October 2024 23:42:32 UTC, Attila Lendvai wro= te: > >i still don't really know what's happening there, but maybe something li= ke "fetching the registry" or "fetching metadata" would be more descriptive= of it? >=20 > Howsabout=E2=80=A6 =E2=80=98looking for suitable substitutes on = =E2=80=99 if we must change the string? >=20 > It describes what's happening, implies why it's happening, and avoids cli= ch=C3=A9d jargon. I wouldn't even know what =E2=80=98fetching the registry= =E2=80=99 means. >=20 > >to me "the substitutes" means the binary artifacts. >=20 > Yes. I think it comes from the assumption that if a substitute isn't available then it's dependencies are (all) available. Thus we get stuck in a recursion of looking further and further to try to find the base of what is available and will allow us to build the derivation we're actually looking for. One option I've been mulling over would be to look for a substitute, and if that failed to automatically look ALL the way back immediately. I don't like it because I'm sure it's overkill and would probably add strain on the substitute servers, but it would decrease the number of times 'searching for substitutes' is printed. --=20 Efraim Flashner =D7=A8=D7=A0=D7=A9=D7=9C=D7=A4 = =D7=9D=D7=99=D7=A8=D7=A4=D7=90 GPG key =3D A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted --XmcSSuYoLgiO508W Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEoov0DD5VE3JmLRT3Qarn3Mo9g1EFAmcfZOcACgkQQarn3Mo9 g1GNoA/9GbTQlJ9R7UkrExVbgOF/dFWTZ4hrL+ET7qE/e+pindyTpi9jzb7a5U9K ibp1tUomY6zZqTqj312vWgUVPY0cV1w6btLXYJBlMZ180I7NALfUT7AfGRgWVOEJ TvdyAb5YN8ioYkGnalzUlfL+qAJe4aEXjDiJYjQi/TN6IzsPhkaRgUkEliXrZuGQ zI9Nf3JDYMGQwtxcBU3FmI5/G4NjISttxGChsN7Hh8UQ/oVfIFTARymnb3d9x0QE 2FEBp2xTVvtCRqvV58e7FFyrDMqvi1LUH8RDljCoZcSv/I/hG3hYFbGdlUdvokhN EvaNOYwCfey5EfqN90iEADYuA3v0HZh1m0T3UlDS7JXA8FkTFFHAd+Amh1Tus86G oJq2TT3+f0qtcoVYk0HaxSxzhtfDz/vuEsPwaHy8aF74M3wXAno5t6L3H3YXCYLM 8mAd/JotOHil23H+7gHJEmYKyqqU0EhLGcbYsIGUc5aQo8YIDbZmqLlvrqLOjpHP lGudwqLGnyVlori8rcLgj7ZpcYSb5BotjfSf1Zi9iP5LUgviDdn2WtcErhcLMu3Q BKw5kl3rNIBM8fy10wu2lVwyQZZzSlbS6UK3bAjE7gM81BMmoqSDlkklv/hRFLfS vkcfzaaYQpvrNWthG9LoExsDexMULalXJaNMUfrRnhFmDWsNC98= =ySJp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --XmcSSuYoLgiO508W--