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micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="xQHkPIkm1IciRtLC" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87plnlkwy1.fsf@gmail.com> X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x41AAE7DCCA3D8351 X-PGP-Key: https://flashner.co.il/~efraim/efraim_flashner.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::333; envelope-from=efraim.flashner@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x333.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Scanner: mx11.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 2.93 X-Spam-Score: 2.93 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B4B4B7FC7B X-TUID: py235zGimhMn --xQHkPIkm1IciRtLC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Oct 27, 2024 at 06:22:46PM -0400, Suhail Singh wrote: > "Thompson, David" writes: >=20 > > Changing GNU/FSF from the inside has been a losing strategy for at > > least a decade, as a conservative estimate. Nothing has meaningfully > > changed for the better and the situation continues to deteriorate both > > socially and infrastructurally. >=20 > Since I am unaware, for my awareness (and the awareness of others in a > similar situation), could you please describe what specific attempts at > social and infrastructure changes were attempted, but were unsuccessful? >=20 > > Juli did a great job describing why in an earlier message. >=20 > Perhaps Juliana's message made sense to those already aware. To those > unaware, such as myself, what I got was that FSF made some "bad > political move" and said move seems to have resulted in FSF being > considered toxic by some people - to the point where simple association > with it or GNU is sufficient to cause discomfort. >=20 > If everyone whose opinion is relevant (I am not a committer, so perhaps > I am intruding) is already aware of what's being discussed above, please > ignore my message. However, I am having difficulty forming an informed > opinion based on the details that have been shared so far. Some of the problems are that it's been the same problems for years. As David Thompson said, and others too, trying to reform the FSF from and the GNU project from the inside has been a losing battle for at least 10 years now. Because it's been so long people normally just hint at it, since it always leads to strong feelings. The problem is RMS. The incident Juliana is referring to is when he appointed himself back onto the board of the FSF a few years ago. To phrase it diplomatically, it is not his Free Software positions that give people pause. I will not try to list or go into detail the different reasons people don't want to associate with him, but I will be explicit that it is not because of his stance on Free Software. If you (or others!) have questions I can try to answer them off-list. --=20 Efraim Flashner =D7=A8=D7=A0=D7=A9=D7=9C=D7=A4 = =D7=9D=D7=99=D7=A8=D7=A4=D7=90 GPG key =3D A28B F40C 3E55 1372 662D 14F7 41AA E7DC CA3D 8351 Confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on emails sent or received unencrypted --xQHkPIkm1IciRtLC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEoov0DD5VE3JmLRT3Qarn3Mo9g1EFAmcfY4YACgkQQarn3Mo9 g1FxXw/+IQRBelt24z2lOLhdAvMlj+awkJHKSl+adlN3+DE9p94tRIXqS3JCp8Dp psovw3dRSBsAtUN26ceXIe6A6jw/MHD+Z20CJtEMwXJO3UAy4SSn/4ENkNcW5DE5 6vanqUsrO2K+QVZ9MoiqvZPyHNksTaGoGxwk9QkdkYjl/gDR0Q/XreuO/GXA2vjv rFq87nF8uEeZRx5BC2PWlZ/JGq/99AWz0U8aKvcDQK5MUvLXfWPO1eJJbnQavgIs fq1VHG67f3JvTvKg5iNzgoOGsmnvmCKQWDXx8wYrPG0ayBM3Wy2RvrXqHtOYM72X +DOwGIRa4FWtG7r8cmo0Tolou9FNQEgC0kdXOa3SoCzoNB4SAYE7Yn+PLkHKc7yM ZB5OV4ysAU57Whmr/fY4ltsrOqKTOaeaAU95EmHk9cJMiaMItXZA3lUiSt2rpD3q igGgoS4IMtU7WSfSwqjpXqJbhWI+JM2ytmw8dTef4MSscCpWMdJVNTv+bB+HTH8u B5b+tlE1/S0g6W5ResW7Q5tLp6MRbbuUsjzhls91YQrBRMVswoLmUGQeLXzaFdR/ l5TeKyStnKiYfBGZ1RMqRi1eH/iGzxP9Cxx38Bu3hvDkbtIzbtdFFDMEEq6SkadB XqJpfIFtmXWZDGKEAM/BbaeSX1ym0k2l9i/M8AdWQ//gUbxnJhM= =UPvS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --xQHkPIkm1IciRtLC--