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Mon, 24 Jun 2024 10:23:46 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=wolfsden.cz; s=mail; t=1719224626; bh=KN13OLTo3plGhO97dEwXR4aQ8k9rQkJIVYbVXQlKDng=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=yBS2UYG59gHXODYD7y5Dl6DqeOHW6R6B/fOSP5YiJcdAAQuYQTZ6z0pSsAvSkeJwQ AP6y874h+wyBkbF8kWVg6pIoFrxA7YAwVai8pCp8qQioVc5o0028rRXeWTXM0wwr2I 2N0ujxUgdN5poZPxjMnPoLY2uVp9ozE7+bgqLt0ksMWHFe6En1iigrLCcf5nOBkmdV dtiClHTzyyNCiDyuYcbGhr6gfGbkuGfaijzQFtNevDZ62vLmCukLDusa+WNWvhmUzm 1XZxZxrvz0BLhu71q+AYrInQic7zgkR0ckKUBj1HhSCqy4BgLBWjLkFotKRyyS1ZP3 0yNMhaQOexqJhk8ufZyTESRkH7Lv9JuVQPbxFMItck0M+gjYbA6NZO/67qE9vz2NdY JOYTX3067moWUXSeGLzn4AN3SrrnNVX2TLOZkB14PpoxgNznu0FrhGzlUMPpwRvOX+ xvzn9wdTVYCITCuWWVYTII4aMlZJNCDiEr5T1OsNmH2SLfSEPBekiv01c+qcsmDgDD kAk8kaAEW+NaqzYn6V6xV5tGJ7X2qIJYCjinjtqMWtM9A/DFwEBkBsm6PDceNrkmsa DZe++RKXp9ow5T+BQqGdttcoeNcFhvI0zG2UVQLoxzS94Hd6hVlEHYZ3XDJhWlrQEF /F6Buv0jgAJpJYV6h4bl7pQ4= Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2024 12:23:46 +0200 From: Tomas Volf <~@wolfsden.cz> To: MSavoritias Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Breath, let take a short break :-) Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: MSavoritias , guix-devel@gnu.org References: <87msnebsfd.fsf@gmail.com> <20240621121213.419da774@fannys.me> <20240621134439.5bc324b4@fannys.me> <87ed8qkzn1.fsf@wireframe> <20240621202240.251fceb2@fannys.me> <87bk3ukoje.fsf@wireframe> <20240622184621.682c3122@fannys.me> <87tthkrhfq.fsf@gmail.com> <20240624103005.53ccbb80@fannys.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="203dXGR2VCtK6ICC" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20240624103005.53ccbb80@fannys.me> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=37.205.8.62; envelope-from=~@wolfsden.cz; helo=wolfsden.cz X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7169D16673 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx12.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -11.53 X-Spam-Score: -11.53 X-TUID: jIYErPP7vaGe --203dXGR2VCtK6ICC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2024-06-24 10:30:05 +0300, MSavoritias wrote: > [..] > > You are advocating for a safe place, right? From my eyes, when I see > > the structure of the thread, it does not generate a safe place where > > collaboration is encouraged. > > > > My feeling, when I do a step back and look to the structure of the > > thread, is that some opinions are silent because it=E2=80=99s hard to h= ave the > > space to express them. > > Yes exactly. So lets see what opinions were expressed the first few hours= of this thread. And what opinions have been expressed after mostly. I do not think this is a fair test. People might have other things to do t= han to respond to fairly heavy email during "the first few hours"... > [..] > If we value diversity then we need to ask: > Where are the different opinions really and why did they left? Have you a= sked yourself that Simon? > > This is not meant of course to say that it is your fault. Its meant to be= a wider discussion of: > 1. Why did the moderation fail in this thread? Did it though? I feel like I could have expressed my opinion if I wanted t= o do so. Could you please describe how would you envisioned this thread to be handled with regards to the moderation? Ideally in specific, actionable steps. > 2. Where are the diversity of voices? Who knows. Maybe they said their piece and were satisfied with it. Maybe = they were convinced my (some) arguments of the other side to just wait a bit lon= ger. Maybe they were indeed scared away by people expressing different opinion. My point is that (afaik) you do *not* know where they are, so the way you p= ut it (implying their absence is caused solely by failure of moderation) feels bit underhanded. At least without some actually investigation into the topic (= which you do not mention here, so I assume it was not performed). > 3. Why was the piling on of a single view point that is again the Guix Co= C allowed in this thread? I do not believe expressing opinion different from yours is CoC violation. = The "piling on" part can just be viewed as expression of the fact that many peo= ple disagree with you, not a harassment. If you believe any particular message violated CoC, you should report it according to the CoC. That will move it outside of "in *your* opinion it was a violation" into "we know whether it = was". Have a nice day, Tomas Volf -- There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors. --203dXGR2VCtK6ICC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEt4NJs4wUfTYpiGikL7/ufbZ/wakFAmZ5STIACgkQL7/ufbZ/ wakzKQ/+IRz2HgZBhFQbZN9JP6Y7TRgu7zXRJwFLmnmIP848S+rYD+YWol2XVFhy fmnK4xQOO+BnGg0kRBSrdDgTId8B1MQ2BvZ0e1tEuKR9huBtl5GbIihfSAiqQRDj QqMGI4hQuwBt5Unk7rVYenrdvldtBGKp73yS3ZB88S0U7dL9GFJV0JDDQk1TI862 Pwx7F+s3sVXGAXKipYQH6+bgvSP+1HLqp22Gr8EKP+WMn7nJEgnAPlRprI9hSUgt wQ4hh4khLS5VrMpCi4sRAmvb3maIv3z5y7Tmu7mug0ODVaDMGVpgVo7K7RVGrSSp xUB1zMNQjXpRmJSDVmWmxFhErmeBrp8XHIYrqsxLfBR14D8WtpBR2st9zcTVK05Z GcWb+aHR1zr+eEHtarVLydQhhG00+YbHYnNhmAU9m8yPJd4U9Mn8EMfSdWaU6uLM AS5Zup4ciFUCaGxoCde481H/AR2mwGPVI+GLwJR1r95n/Qk5j2yD/ztJAyExQD3h 7Tz8IkX0Zi8HWtx2ueDjGRo2z9bn7vi4hVoeD5IZyqN6XVbvhDeyj+AzliMp3lXm x8qenN4b2tufUJzpQ+SDtkgLXGCDTDYYtULWIMdOOgbritQ1RpP+2CmAHR/v6W4x epgdGlKtAM9NXxUDCszhHD0OzGgknxxsQ0ygG+fp56VBwkUqMD0= =XaGy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --203dXGR2VCtK6ICC--