From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id NDH2GspWxmDyVgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:04:42 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id eG97FcpWxmDpHwAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 19:04:42 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 167CFC918 for ; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:04:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:46202 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsVPV-0001Xa-4u for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:04:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48510) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsVPC-0001X9-2n for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:04:23 -0400 Received: from wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.21]:43095) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lsVP7-0000vp-Ez for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:04:21 -0400 Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893D51653; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:04:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:04:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=famulari.name; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:references:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to; s=mesmtp; bh=GdU/ig+Iz0PArlVmqJy3r7fiUpNiqxSizGFa+RojBrY=; b=hYOQVuLfV4Hx X5PdypLFhOPZS/SnERJX51Iq8tJcM9nAWew9sWSgJ7wqm5qApArcXZ6RtjbXPLLj R4TfOzmEkuNy8dIQ5H96n4e3oyIMbNvyd+lLxt6BUscCUoZJcwMY+Exj3DyM3CE5 GvSKi5D3PV47FoqG7JmYhuo7uIbO8dI= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=GdU/ig+Iz0PArlVmqJy3r7fiUpNiqxSizGFa+RojB rY=; b=ceFA5OsQZF0XcFBySeSGGBynqgF03KpOuksK4hfV2aeBEM0D1xL7l1az+ xpGRp690ILwj492IqUN7S0v22b9f3cZYA9MfsjXZTNswyIaMoH3RpLTVAw6ALdoy ffTy6SlyK0i6Fdkk2y4pSirMsbirwPn+fM3xPQrQbWRkPDWSF857o7kQY1eOf73d J5DcuWJASPtMf9w5DY/v1/ljuOFUTcK6HXpvFv33gCd2XXWC8hKkt9xezdBehiCi kbrt6U1s0s+DSRrUdVww68KhIfil+phTJhufQ64InUz+zL2gTg4GKUsm5vDvMG2g XBSi/+c/SjSsr2kERu9fRpaKTIQJg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrfedvfedgudefiecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpeffhffvuffkfhggtggugfgjsehtkeortddttdejnecuhfhrohhmpefnvgho ucfhrghmuhhlrghrihcuoehlvghosehfrghmuhhlrghrihdrnhgrmhgvqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpeefieegveefkedvvedtjefgkefhkeeiteetvedthfekfeffveelkeetkedt geelkeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe hlvghosehfrghmuhhlrghrihdrnhgrmhgv X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:04:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2021 15:04:12 -0400 From: Leo Famulari To: Leo Prikler Subject: Re: Telemetry on by default kitty Message-ID: References: <87fsxm7s69.fsf@disroot.org> <87eed695yb.fsf@nckx> <87czsq7oyl.fsf@disroot.org> <87bl8a92r4.fsf@nckx> <83e3ea6de4daa14a81c826d9200941719abe2f82.camel@student.tugraz.at> <877diy7c7w.fsf@disroot.org> <2e8ede06b4786e4604269b9a7a4a5f04b154040e.camel@student.tugraz.at> <05c05536dde5660ada17b9f4dc8dc041272c1a4a.camel@student.tugraz.at> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <05c05536dde5660ada17b9f4dc8dc041272c1a4a.camel@student.tugraz.at> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.21; envelope-from=leo@famulari.name; helo=wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1623611082; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=GdU/ig+Iz0PArlVmqJy3r7fiUpNiqxSizGFa+RojBrY=; b=aLG59S0ncLApNSUN6F4Wbf2ic5t9cIPlid3d6t5xPeIq3/T5HXDsYXB3/Bg+h4pZX2jN3a nJrhKl+3VtbkEeP46Gdx8wYgAchilZxtEkgDpc4IqkugEVPq+XaykvRhL0ZxekifWV87Cc Ar6p29ZJeuGKXjeez2z8xbtpkN2L3CGZViq45+HkwPKXczadFIkGUTt8j6EGNFQZf3mue3 KLlKvb/cQmi0igk/mQz2xOlJIbHha2XEOnHhRhuVzsK3z/VJTY4qej8pZTW0qyKg2IFNAb Dz8vn7Sn8Oz7EjRk5Ww12TcEqpkgXAb3QcZ/m9Ek03jIxC7+2qlAQ4Qq/DGbBA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1623611082; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=efoT0xHn3nQF859IDneypKQ65mX+BWarPVWcU5jopT76RUagyksp3SD2vZLymVBYFfgfud 1VDrzpRBT3lvHXp1unlWCb6mT4ArDDHUPhXcTmtRDh1OnyJelUfETEs+FlTOa8Qwy4zuQv f3CtSJfd1G6C6w7ih7f/RMUlpIr3CYsb7UDDbbgVxk/P4btyUdgCnJ5LJqoZdp2b8UQ7E7 3ZvJLS4+2PkitYhg9vIasjSwBqUqLUE5JIkv89FfqCIeQMbB9y3uViUjbiZ5vyLIc9XJ/m JwiKfTjj5q01rj7CyBFRblGa15AsFdUORJgPjnx+1OVObBEo3X2j6aiqOzWC5Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=famulari.name header.s=mesmtp header.b=hYOQVuLf; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=ceFA5OsQ; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.42 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=famulari.name header.s=mesmtp header.b=hYOQVuLf; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=ceFA5OsQ; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 167CFC918 X-Spam-Score: -1.42 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: SvHKfcyOSXj/ On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 08:35:18PM +0200, Leo Prikler wrote: > Perhaps it's valuable for developers, but as a user I often have next > to no information about what data gets collected and for which purpose, > both of which are important for *informed consent*. If "the masses" > don't really care about the data being collected and would rather see > improvements on their software, they are free to enable telemetry – > that's what opt-in is for – but my personal opinion on this is that > you're going to have a hard time convincing people, that you actually > only collect reasonable amounts and use them with respect for privacy > rights. Yeah, I agree that telemetry is a problem in addition to being valuable for developers. I think that making it opt-in doesn't really help very much. People use defaults. I read that Firefox struggles with software quality on GNU/Linux because almost nobody enables the telemetry. I feel that, ultimately, we already trust most software authors implicitly and totally, because we are not auditing their programs. So, I am personally happy to enable the telemetry for most software I use — especially if it is free software and especially for software that deals with the network. I don't personally see the point of treating telemetry as a special case in terms of trust or consent.