From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: =?UTF-8?Q?Todor_Kondi=C4=87?= Subject: Re: How to present Guix to a wider audience Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2020 11:03:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <878smq41kg.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <874kwyp9hi.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <87blr5w0x7.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> <16faa4e8277.129e885d565438.6999666921160208292@zoho.com> Reply-To: =?UTF-8?Q?Todor_Kondi=C4=87?= Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52455) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1it8N3-0004IQ-FY for help-guix@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jan 2020 06:03:59 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1it8N1-0004Dd-Nd for help-guix@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jan 2020 06:03:57 -0500 Received: from mail-40134.protonmail.ch ([185.70.40.134]:32147) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1it8N1-0004CY-3m for help-guix@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Jan 2020 06:03:55 -0500 In-Reply-To: <16faa4e8277.129e885d565438.6999666921160208292@zoho.com> List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+gcggh-help-guix=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" To: "help-guix\\@gnu.org" Cc: "sirgazil@zoho.com" =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me= ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 On Wednesday, 15 January 2020 18:44, sirgazil wrote: > Hi, Pierre > > ---- On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 03:59:00 -0500 Pierre Neidhardt mail@ambrevar.xy= z wrote ---- > > > Thank you all for the reviews and the kind feedback! > > > > > > It seems that the draft was met with success for now. > > > So what about including it on Guix' website, maybe with a big link to i= t > > > on the front page? > > I think the problem of "What is Guix?" should be solved before doing that= (seehttps://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-guix/2020-01/msg00002.html). > > Personally, I think GNU Guix and its related operating system should be p= resented separately. > > I think that GNU Guix is not a software that needs to be explained to the= average computer user. GNU Guix, in my opinion, is a software for system a= dministrators and developers in any field, and it would be good to present = it clearly to them in general and provide explanations for particular field= s whenever necessary (that's what the section "GNU Guix in your field" in t= he home page was designed for). > > Even though one of GNU Guix goals is to empower users, average users are = more into installing and removing application, and that's about it. Ideally= , not using a command-line interface directly but a graphical user interfac= e (e.g. an app store). > > The operating system, on the other hand, should be presented to average u= sers, and it should be called simply GNU. With this I mean that the GNU pro= ject should use GNU Guix to generate downloadable installers of what they c= all the GNU Operating System in their home page and distribute these instal= lers through the GNU.org website. The pages of GNU.org should be updated ac= cordingly and focus on presenting the GNU operating system to the general p= ublic. This would include adding high-level information of the features GNU= Guix brings with it (reproducibility, bootstrappability, etc.) which would= differentiate GNU from other systems. For advanced uses of the system that= require deeper understanding of GNU Guix, advanced users should be directe= d to the GNU Guix subdomain. The rest of the current Free Software Distribu= tions (Trisquel, PureOS, Parabola, etc.) would still be listed in GNU.org a= s alternative distributions of the GNU Operating System. I know that RMS op= posed to this idea a couple of years ago (https://lists.gnu.org/archive/htm= l/gnu-system-discuss/2014-11/msg00002.html), but I think this should be don= e. > > I think this separation could make it easier to outreach to potential use= rs of both artifacts, the OS and the "software environment manager". Callin= g the OS just GNU would also help differentiate this system from what the g= eneral public call "linux". > > > I am sorry, but Guix should most definitively be presented to average *nix = based users (the admins of their own/family workstations). It's like: "Look= , now your grandmother, her cat and your dog can all install packages witho= ut knowing your sudo password!". This feature alone is highly appealing to = some circles ;) . As for more "advanced" users, from the experience I had when talking about = Guix to the unconverted hackers, they struggle to accept why is it so much = better than the already hyped technologies that Just Work, such as Chef/Pup= pet and other CI/CD for automating installations (*), Docker/Singularity on= their own for building containers etc, especially because it is based on a= n 'exotic' language as Scheme (exotic was the exact word that has been use= d in a certain conversation with an experienced professional developer). Di= sclaimer: I started using Guix because it was based on Guile. Of course, different target groups should be, well, targeted with different= aspects of Guix -- those that may appeal to them. And, there is more to Gu= ix than just the pkg manager and the OS. Also, to be fair, Guix is the first complex program of the GNU system I am = aware of that started making waves in modern times, so on the presentation = front some things have already been done well. * I am not an expert on this, so I am not sure whether Guix can fit in the = same workflow with the mentioned tools, or is in a parallel, or an orthogon= al universe.