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Sun, 2 May 2021 04:14:44 +0000 Received: from OSZP286MB0664.JPNP286.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2a01:111:e400:7ebd::48) by SG2APC01FT043.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7ebd::285) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4087.27 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 2 May 2021 04:14:44 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:3898FF603894C609D3DB6CA931E83127DB346B30DA5164ADE73DC954A2065F25; UpperCasedChecksum:BD4A52B72DDE9CCAB06CB113A12AD4557E6661207233A372FDCDE149F2284F6C; SizeAsReceived:9545; Count:47 Received: from OSZP286MB0664.JPNP286.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::3077:ff28:1097:42cd]) by OSZP286MB0664.JPNP286.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::3077:ff28:1097:42cd%6]) with mapi id 15.20.4087.041; Sun, 2 May 2021 04:14:44 +0000 From: =?utf-8?B?5a6L5paH5q2m?= To: Leo Prikler Subject: Re: Criticisms of my "tone" (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes) References: <87tunz11mf.fsf@netris.org> <87y2daz13x.fsf@netris.org> <87r1j2z079.fsf@netris.org> <87a6pqypf9.fsf@netris.org> <87wnsp7yo9.fsf@gnu.org> <87v986pdej.fsf@netris.org> <874kfm75fl.fsf@biscuolo.net> <1bbb100c34c660eaa697ae7ea9ea7ea3638c4c50.camel@student.tugraz.at> <87wnsije63.fsf@netris.org> Date: Sun, 02 May 2021 12:17:59 +0800 In-Reply-To: (Leo Prikler's message of "Sun, 02 May 2021 01:15:23 +0200") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain; 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Guix Devel , GNU Guix maintainers Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=2; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1619928911; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=uJ4zj/cu7fqsp0oD0E1jJrPOrUWl1xnT7erDpesX/UE=; b=hPOFGPW47IidEW1XrW9apXaanXhn9Dpq8gmNpM4fnNuwr2ufWZFbMPGD4YTUd1r4S+E40Y EORGpRkvYBSyCrLpdKGXY8SKkApC1HXQh7DkOZNr3bxtJES1Goci2+ZqKHtJPLjP7JtF6r FVvIHThGUqUW/ZwY5WOCkPAKqM2SpVSw+Z4XZo1SvuArViPB9nJUZOJBKblgLNXjFJRwZQ Qgd0JTMmWxq1Yyt58Q6F6jAAbxNCaqpll8FYLWYaODUf/qGcNd4Wgxb40qcuSrD1ZNB8Se 0pPCxv1Kesq9JkS9r+c9LgMJsIgwkxvs2BeTtEOMiWS+l80NTng4OLEKNcco/g== ARC-Seal: i=2; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1619928911; a=rsa-sha256; cv=pass; b=f+F6xdmCH2WzBiG+8HtVs5rBfj+k3EizOmVGRXL1t91Qf/EAKHaacvSQlw4l84goOw1nMu sRPfUuoZ6aAqJHhmg7GBqGllFDCYVAIciPd25uJ9Bn6Wskd0BHZH6gmH8N75KfWj+c9+Dz uIdFaNifC75uiRoaNubaltaAO5USQTmAg0UkoG//hX3h6POd49uJ0tE2iLV+wVf6Jk8F+u SLDtBdwqfjX2J/LMO0Ev/rmNAonRN9RomcvMf5ipt1n5mH0ghmy2zj+ZOoHDPqJ2JTADWf TVnqPlk0NXxaYjEjfphGEE7Se5qaCSFqzwkAwAKodA28W+JMckuWg7Ajv9vC4Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=2; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=outlook.com header.s=selector1 header.b=bS9efn8C; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1"); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.16 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=outlook.com header.s=selector1 header.b=bS9efn8C; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1"); dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=outlook.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 52C1F1E573 X-Spam-Score: -4.16 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: lZuijt5r2fk7 Leo Prikler writes: > Hi Mark, > > Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 18:12 -0400 schrieb Mark H Weaver: >> Hi Leo, >>=20 >> Leo Prikler writes: >>=20 >> > Am Samstag, den 01.05.2021, 19:02 +0200 schrieb Giovanni Biscuolo: >> > > I also spent some time re-reading messages that Mark sent in this >> > > thread and, like him, I really don't understand what Mark did >> > > wrong. >> > >=20 >> > > For sure Mark /insisted/ that Raghav and L=C3=A9o did something wron= g >> > > with >> > > some commits, we can say Mark did it being /direct/ and >> > > /accusatory/ >> > > but we cannot really say Mark assumed bad faith from them. >> > He did wrong insofar as his accusatory message read as though he >> > was >> > assuming bad faith Hello Leo, I see nothing wrong for assuming bad faith when security fixes of packages are removed, in the end the truth matter, which I believe is: You thought the patches for cario is not needed now on core-updates, so you remove them. > [...] > Well, you did fumble on those facts a little, because the true history > of the misleading commits was only discovered later. So did I in the > same thread. Either way, "just pointing out facts" is not an accurate > assessment in my opinion; facts are nothing without interpretation, > which see. Yes, you have to take actions based on interpretation to get more clues from existed facts to reach the truth. > [...] > Let it be said, that I don't condemn you for starting this thread. Not > only did it highlight an issue, that would otherwise have gone > unnoticed, I think most of the participants are now more acutely aware > of what might go wrong if they evade review. It is sad, that things > turned out the way they did, but despite what others might claim you > don't bear sole responsibility for that. Sure, I think we just lack some trust. With the trust, you'll know that Mark only want to confirm the truth with you and avoid this kind of issues in the future.