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Roesch" References: <87pm00mxkg.fsf@lease-up.com> <87plz8alhc.fsf@mdc-berlin.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.200.91.1.1) X-Greylist: Whitelist-UGA SMTP Authentifie (bouttiep@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr) via smtps-465 ACL (42) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=152.77.200.56; envelope-from=Pierre-Antoine.Bouttier@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr; helo=zm-mta-out-3.u-ga.fr X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 15:55:18 -0500 X-BeenThere: guix-science@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-science-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-science-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.75 X-Spam-Score: -5.75 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 864AE544B1 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx11.migadu.com X-TUID: rp17rwoZiF+2 --Apple-Mail=_4C73B943-BAEF-4C08-96CE-EE5D09773991 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Etienne,=20 > The issue with profiles you are mentioning is interesting; I haven't = quite > thought it through yet. I think I would personally want users to be = able to > create profiles (for reproducibility reasons) but I guess it would = work the > same way with guix shells built from manifests, maybe slightly less = easy to > interact with, I don't know. As part of the support team in a HPC center that provides guix command = to our users to set up their software environments, we advice them to = use guix shell rather than guix profile and most of them are pretty = happy with that.=20 Obviously, you need to write a good documentation :) My 2 cents P-A --- Pierre-Antoine Bouttier CNRS Research Engineer Dir. Adj. UAR GRICAD GriCAD - https://gricad.univ-grenoble-alpes.fr/ Batiment IMAG CS 40700 38058 Grenoble CEDEX 9 +33 4 57 42 18 66 > Le 14 d=C3=A9c. 2023 =C3=A0 16:28, Etienne B. Roesch = a =C3=A9crit : >=20 > Thanks a ton! >=20 > I think we've arrived at the limit of how I understand the daemon to = work, > and GUIX_DAEMON_SOCKET. I think I understand that you are using a = single > node (hpc of sort I imagine), where users create sessions, and within = which > you provide the guix command, having set up GUIX_DAEMON_SOCKET to a > unix-domain socket (to that same node / itself). That makes total = sense in > the context of the single node. Did I get that right? >=20 > I think what we are aiming for, in our case (where users each have = their > own nodes as it were, only sharing network drives), is providing the = guix > command on each node, set up with GUIX_DAEMON_SOCKET connecting with = ssh to > a master node with a daemon, that itself would have access to the same > network drives. >=20 >=20 > Etienne >=20 > On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 2:48=E2=80=AFPM Ricardo Wurmus = > wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> "Etienne B. Roesch" writes: >>=20 >>> Hiccups: we provide home dirs as nfs drives through the network. = Using >> guix, we are thinking of creating one nfs drive, shared by all >>> users, to contain /var/guix and /gnu/store, symlinked from /. >>> As I understand, that should work, until a user decides to run "guix = gc" >> (which would clear wrongly assumed unused profiles) or maybe >>> until a user decides to launch several vms (which is theoretically >> possible, but doesn't happen often). >>=20 >> I would strongly discourage the use of profiles in users=E2=80=99 = home >> directories. When introducing Guix we now only demo =E2=80=9Cguix = shell=E2=80=9D, which >> is preferrable in most cases. =E2=80=9Cguix gc=E2=80=9D is = problematic when profile >> links are in locations that the daemon cannot read. >>=20 >>> Efraim suggested using a shared daemon ssh-ing GUIX_DAEMON_SOCKET. = We >>> would probably run this on a separate vm. We are however unsure how = it >>> would behave when /var/guix/daemon-socket/socket is itself on an = nfs. >>=20 >> We only export /var/guix/profiles, not anything else in /var/guix. >> Using GUIX_DAEMON_SOCKET with a network port (make =E2=80=9Cguix-daemon= =E2=80=9D listen >> on that port) is all we ever needed. >>=20 >> -- >> Ricardo Wurmus >>=20 >> System administrator >> BIMSB - Scientific Bioinformatics Platform >> Max Delbrueck Center for Molecular Medicine >>=20 >> email: ricardo.wurmus@mdc-berlin.de >> tel: +49 30 9406 1796 >>=20 --Apple-Mail=_4C73B943-BAEF-4C08-96CE-EE5D09773991 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Etienne, 

The issue = with profiles you are mentioning is interesting; I haven't = quite
thought it through yet. I think I would personally want users = to be able to
create profiles (for reproducibility reasons) but I = guess it would work the
same way with guix shells built from = manifests, maybe slightly less easy to
interact with, I don't = know.

As part of the support team in a = HPC center that provides guix command to our users to set up their = software environments, we advice them to use guix shell rather than guix = profile and most of them are pretty happy with = that. 
Obviously, you need to write a good documentation = :)

My 2 cents
P-A
---
Pierre-Antoine Bouttier
CNRS Research Engineer
Dir. Adj. UAR = GRICAD

GriCAD - = https://gricad.univ-grenoble-alpes.fr/
Batiment IMAG
CS = 40700
38058 Grenoble CEDEX 9

+33 4 57 42 18 =  66

Le 14 d=C3=A9c. 2023 =C3=A0 = 16:28, Etienne B. Roesch <etienne.roesch@gmail.com> a =C3=A9crit = :

Thanks a = ton!

I think we've arrived at the limit of how I understand the = daemon to work,
and GUIX_DAEMON_SOCKET. I think I understand that you = are using a single
node (hpc of sort I imagine), where users create = sessions, and within which
you provide the guix command, having set = up GUIX_DAEMON_SOCKET to a
unix-domain socket (to that same node / = itself). That makes total sense in
the context of the single node. = Did I get that right?

I think what we are aiming for, in our case = (where users each have their
own nodes as it were, only sharing = network drives), is providing the guix
command on each node, set up = with GUIX_DAEMON_SOCKET connecting with ssh to
a master node with a = daemon, that itself would have access to the same
network = drives.


Etienne

On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 2:48=E2=80=AFPM = Ricardo Wurmus = <ricardo.wurmus@mdc-berlin.de>
wrote:


"Etienne B. Roesch" <etienne.roesch@gmail.com> = writes:

Hiccups: we provide home dirs = as nfs drives through the network. Using
guix, we are = thinking of creating one nfs drive, shared by all
users, to contain /var/guix and /gnu/store, symlinked from = /.
As I understand, that should work, until a user decides to run = "guix gc"
(which would clear wrongly assumed unused = profiles) or maybe
until a user decides to = launch several vms (which is theoretically
possible, but = doesn't happen often).

I would strongly discourage the use of = profiles in users=E2=80=99 home
directories.  When introducing = Guix we now only demo =E2=80=9Cguix shell=E2=80=9D, which
is = preferrable in most cases.  =E2=80=9Cguix gc=E2=80=9D is = problematic when profile
links are in locations that the daemon = cannot read.

Efraim suggested using a = shared daemon ssh-ing GUIX_DAEMON_SOCKET. We
would probably run this = on a separate vm. We are however unsure how it
would behave when = /var/guix/daemon-socket/socket is itself on an = nfs.

We only export /var/guix/profiles, not anything = else in /var/guix.
Using GUIX_DAEMON_SOCKET with a network port (make = =E2=80=9Cguix-daemon=E2=80=9D listen
on that port) is all we ever = needed.

--
Ricardo Wurmus

System administrator
BIMSB = - Scientific Bioinformatics Platform
Max Delbrueck Center for = Molecular Medicine

email: ricardo.wurmus@mdc-berlin.de
tel: =   +49 30 9406 = 1796


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Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:33:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from smtpclient.apple (i15-les01-ntr-62-34-148-47.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr [62.34.148.47]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: bouttiep@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr) by smtps.univ-grenoble-alpes.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 53218140052; Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:33:52 +0100 (CET) From: Pierre-Antoine Bouttier Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.200.91.1.1\)) Subject: Re: guix on nfs based systems Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:33:41 +0100 In-Reply-To: Cc: Ricardo Wurmus , Felix Lechner , help-guix@gnu.org, guix-science@gnu.org To: "Etienne B. Roesch" References: <87pm00mxkg.fsf@lease-up.com> <87plz8alhc.fsf@mdc-berlin.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.200.91.1.1) X-Greylist: Whitelist-UGA SMTP Authentifie (bouttiep@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr) via smtps-465 ACL (42) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=152.77.200.56; envelope-from=Pierre-Antoine.Bouttier@univ-grenoble-alpes.fr; helo=zm-mta-out-3.u-ga.fr X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 19:30:03 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: help-guix@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: help-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.45 X-Spam-Score: -3.45 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: AA44015800 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx11.migadu.com X-TUID: taZWxnaLrEda Message-ID: <20231214153341.2QKsQt4MEppHsRtYypwHReziPhPu3xOnvenbJNvkgrE@z> Hi Etienne,=20 > The issue with profiles you are mentioning is interesting; I haven't = quite > thought it through yet. I think I would personally want users to be = able to > create profiles (for reproducibility reasons) but I guess it would = work the > same way with guix shells built from manifests, maybe slightly less = easy to > interact with, I don't know. As part of the support team in a HPC center that provides guix command = to our users to set up their software environments, we advice them to = use guix shell rather than guix profile and most of them are pretty = happy with that.=20 Obviously, you need to write a good documentation :) My 2 cents P-A --- Pierre-Antoine Bouttier CNRS Research Engineer Dir. Adj. UAR GRICAD GriCAD - https://gricad.univ-grenoble-alpes.fr/ Batiment IMAG CS 40700 38058 Grenoble CEDEX 9 +33 4 57 42 18 66 > Le 14 d=C3=A9c. 2023 =C3=A0 16:28, Etienne B. Roesch = a =C3=A9crit : >=20 > Thanks a ton! >=20 > I think we've arrived at the limit of how I understand the daemon to = work, > and GUIX_DAEMON_SOCKET. I think I understand that you are using a = single > node (hpc of sort I imagine), where users create sessions, and within = which > you provide the guix command, having set up GUIX_DAEMON_SOCKET to a > unix-domain socket (to that same node / itself). That makes total = sense in > the context of the single node. Did I get that right? >=20 > I think what we are aiming for, in our case (where users each have = their > own nodes as it were, only sharing network drives), is providing the = guix > command on each node, set up with GUIX_DAEMON_SOCKET connecting with = ssh to > a master node with a daemon, that itself would have access to the same > network drives. >=20 >=20 > Etienne >=20 > On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 2:48=E2=80=AFPM Ricardo Wurmus = > wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> "Etienne B. Roesch" writes: >>=20 >>> Hiccups: we provide home dirs as nfs drives through the network. = Using >> guix, we are thinking of creating one nfs drive, shared by all >>> users, to contain /var/guix and /gnu/store, symlinked from /. >>> As I understand, that should work, until a user decides to run "guix = gc" >> (which would clear wrongly assumed unused profiles) or maybe >>> until a user decides to launch several vms (which is theoretically >> possible, but doesn't happen often). >>=20 >> I would strongly discourage the use of profiles in users=E2=80=99 = home >> directories. When introducing Guix we now only demo =E2=80=9Cguix = shell=E2=80=9D, which >> is preferrable in most cases. =E2=80=9Cguix gc=E2=80=9D is = problematic when profile >> links are in locations that the daemon cannot read. >>=20 >>> Efraim suggested using a shared daemon ssh-ing GUIX_DAEMON_SOCKET. = We >>> would probably run this on a separate vm. We are however unsure how = it >>> would behave when /var/guix/daemon-socket/socket is itself on an = nfs. >>=20 >> We only export /var/guix/profiles, not anything else in /var/guix. >> Using GUIX_DAEMON_SOCKET with a network port (make =E2=80=9Cguix-daemon= =E2=80=9D listen >> on that port) is all we ever needed. >>=20 >> -- >> Ricardo Wurmus >>=20 >> System administrator >> BIMSB - Scientific Bioinformatics Platform >> Max Delbrueck Center for Molecular Medicine >>=20 >> email: ricardo.wurmus@mdc-berlin.de >> tel: +49 30 9406 1796 >>=20