From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id SNK2Gn9+nWGzfQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 00:51:27 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id GIZfFn9+nWHDagAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 23:51:27 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 270A72BFC3 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2021 00:51:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:51540 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mpfZO-0002fU-8h for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 18:51:26 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44130) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mpfYw-0002eG-87 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 18:50:58 -0500 Received: from [2a00:5884:8208::1] (port=37040 helo=lepiller.eu) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mpfYt-0002S8-74 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 18:50:57 -0500 Received: from lepiller.eu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lepiller.eu (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 6757e357; Tue, 23 Nov 2021 23:50:50 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=lepiller.eu; h=date:from :to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=dkim; bh=Y67fUlDYGsON sFu3qLJU+/4f/BJTljHyemXQ300zGd0=; b=lqg2C7lwd3bnKwi4bPlduVsgo+n2 4m/+N96l48VI+1kZMLYvDOm7dpvHST9SyAN2Qd49mOH5KSSc87cBHWWAS8qVYxVx 0sM3X9vYIXlYJoMwZSEfOsZhED4kJ3fvjwa1gJR3fhZkawNx9b+03kHxo26cUpeS afgwSkQ0WddtT8vb0oTiV4eZdlvfQFrL0FW5RNPzaLg/rDqApoPcbEV8sH1nTn/Q 914X3uJzGic+L4WGcwjB9YV6qk4Wsct7/wC/v7VeP7r3i5zAvBaDZ9F90Y3qjb/U GTm7vSkBjRzA3vQ3qAI/mohEuOBeTKMGwol0ckN5X73A5w0DbEwVj69yHw== Received: by lepiller.eu (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id e1f2f832 (TLSv1.3:AEAD-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256:NO); Tue, 23 Nov 2021 23:50:49 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 18:50:39 -0500 From: Julien Lepiller To: Jacob Hrbek , Liliana Marie Prikler Subject: Re: Proposal: Build timers User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=----6IKN49L3496K06WRGC8LHXTA6SY06C Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:5884:8208::1 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:5884:8208::1; envelope-from=julien@lepiller.eu; helo=lepiller.eu X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: "guix-devel@gnu.org" Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1637711487; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Y67fUlDYGsONsFu3qLJU+/4f/BJTljHyemXQ300zGd0=; b=ZQXpnsJ2kW8HXQg7dM9/2BIbMFOrRq4Nej7pcGsOgmeCn0W+wHq6AGG3Yxs0zw+h64Qa/v rDo3e09dF5pdsnx/CQKgn3bO680q/bHEkgz/vY43V6/nce3ieioewRoTWW1xhHgTLADobs MEt3FHsCeET6Laib5MA+pJUUCMqXHTn1Od4h9MID+VVvbeHEGwKSOqwCyiRRyfabEG031H nwmpyR9wQIMUaqEyXCxRVlEcO9Ir8GRslg/79v4FAC5XiPHCvNv+MbKFMMy5XXSlWR3EuT m+3bjoPHd3yfcpr7vR0kg1PoWiKnwCjeP8360308FLQiGKqMmGiidtzAdP+hgg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1637711487; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=VBLqcuBbZEjji/TusKC8dtGssYOdOE+OhV3PIbP1y+X/3WssQY+dcX8iqT/E5L8LZ1PHIu FYOMDO1aJ7S9Df6cxl4Z8RmV0WLgRhBeB0Y6ncgymI3DzWFOfNOZlQQyrJ41a/eUXAcwlU VUHAoKCCKqre8ojnhWgc8+gSPzTSRYhEasS6V2vU+qqtRRw+Mc3oBlcpvILK2tFVkcGgkt VZm0h6AHapP+/trKirNWgah8903/kfNNh0oBV/uyF0DQUmAY+dTCO3W77PoxjNnrJP0SYM lR2fzdq+oxwKPUrqwUjCl/WhqaDllnCCTId8ttaHcnIrsCqpC6pelDv1B7KwCg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=lepiller.eu header.s=dkim header.b=lqg2C7lw; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=lepiller.eu; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.09 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=lepiller.eu header.s=dkim header.b=lqg2C7lw; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=lepiller.eu; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 270A72BFC3 X-Spam-Score: -4.09 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: WlkYHrCom1YG ------6IKN49L3496K06WRGC8LHXTA6SY06C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Do we even care that much about accuracy? I don't really care that the buil= d takes 30 or 31 seconds, or even 1 minute, but I certainly care whether it= takes 30s or 3h=2E I think this is also what SBUs give you: a rough estima= te of which build is longer than the other=2E I think a simple proportional= ity relation would work well enough in most common cases=2E It might be qui= te off on a super computer, but who cares, really? Le 23 novembre 2021 16:35:24 GMT-05:00, Jacob Hrbek a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0: >Skimming through the research that lily provided our builds are reproduci= ble so the changes in cpu cycles requirements should be same with any post-= build implementation disabled, but i recognize that different CPUs might us= e different configuration that influences the calculation and it will be a = complicated task to account for all variables that influence the build acro= ss systems so instead of accurate measurements we should work with a sane t= olerance for accuracy=2E > >-- Jacob "Kreyren" Hrbek > >Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email=2E > >=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original = Message =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 > >On Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021 at 8:09 PM, Liliana Marie Prikler wrote: > >> Am Montag, den 22=2E11=2E2021, 22:02 +0000 schrieb Jacob Hrbek: >>=20 > >> > See the proposal in https://git=2Edotya=2Eml/guix=2Enext/GUIX=2Enext/= issues/5 >> >=20 > >> > -- Jacob "Kreyren" Hrbek >> >=20 > >> > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email=2E >>=20 > >> Your Pok=C3=A9mon analogy is extremely flawed=2E The same CPU at a diff= erent >>=20 > >> clockrate does not perform the same task in the same amount of cycles >>=20 > >> [1, 2]=2E >>=20 > >> [1] Kotla, Ramakrishna & Devgan, Anirudh & Ghiasi, Soraya & Keller, Tom >>=20 > >> & Rawson, Freeman=2E (2004)=2E Characterizing the impact of different >>=20 > >> memory-intensity levels=2E 3 - 10=2E 10=2E1109/WWC=2E2004=2E1437388=2E >>=20 > >> [2] Snowdon, David & Sueur, Etienne & Petters, Stefan & Heiser, Gernot= =2E >>=20 > >> (2009)=2E Koala a platform for OS-level power management=2E Proceedings= of >>=20 > >> the 4th ACM European Conference on Computer Systems, EuroSys'09=2E 289- >>=20 > >> 302=2E 10=2E1145/1519065=2E1519097=2E ------6IKN49L3496K06WRGC8LHXTA6SY06C Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Do we even care that much about accuracy? I don't = really care that the build takes 30 or 31 seconds, or even 1 minute, but I = certainly care whether it takes 30s or 3h=2E I think this is also what SBUs= give you: a rough estimate of which build is longer than the other=2E I th= ink a simple proportionality relation would work well enough in most common= cases=2E It might be quite off on a super computer, but who cares, really?=

Le 23 novembre 2021 16:35:24 GMT-05:00, = Jacob Hrbek <kreyren@rixotstudio=2Ecz> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0: 
Skimming through the research that lily=
 provided our builds are reproducible so the changes in cpu cycles requirem=
ents should be same with any post-build implementation disabled, but i reco=
gnize that different CPUs might use different configuration that influences=
 the calculation and it will be a complicated task to account for all varia=
bles that influence the build across systems so instead of accurate measure=
ments we should work with a sane tolerance for accuracy=2E

-- Jacob =
"Kreyren" Hrbek

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email=2E

=E2=80=
=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Message =
=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90

On T=
uesday, November 23rd, 2021 at 8:09 PM, Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana=
=2Eprikler@gmail=2Ecom> wrote:

Am Montag, den 22=2E11=2E2021, 22:02 +0000 schrieb Jacob Hrb=
ek:


See the proposal in https://g=
it=2Edotya=2Eml/guix=2Enext/GUIX=2Enext/issues/5


-- Jacob "Kreyren" Hrbek


<=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; bord=
er-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;">Sent with ProtonMail Secure=
 Email=2E


Your Pok=C3=A9mon analogy is extremely flawed=2E The s=
ame CPU at a different


clockrate does not perform the same task in the same a=
mount of cycles


[1, 2]=2E


[1] Kotla, Ramakrishna & Devgan, Anirudh & Gh=
iasi, Soraya & Keller, Tom


& Rawson, Freeman=2E (2004)=2E Characteriz=
ing the impact of different


memory-intensity levels=2E 3 - 10=2E 10=2E1109/WW=
C=2E2004=2E1437388=2E


[2] Snowdon, David & Sueur, Etienne & Petters, =
Stefan & Heiser, Gernot=2E


(2009)=2E Koala a platform for OS-level power =
management=2E Proceedings of


the 4th ACM European Conference on Computer Syst=
ems, EuroSys'09=2E 289-


302=2E 10=2E1145/1519065=2E1519097=2E
------6IKN49L3496K06WRGC8LHXTA6SY06C--