From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id AFLGN5ogU2Fr8wAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 16:03:06 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id 8DBgM5ogU2HnfwAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 14:03:06 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 63712B0FD for ; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 16:03:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:37674 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVDhJ-0005e5-Aj for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 10:03:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54360) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVDgz-0005Zc-42 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 10:02:46 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:44828) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVDgy-0003iO-Sm for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 10:02:44 -0400 Received: from 96-66-250-146-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net ([96.66.250.146]:51686 helo=valencia) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVDgy-0001vd-0H for guix-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 28 Sep 2021 10:02:44 -0400 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 07:02:41 -0700 From: Jason Self To: guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Linux-libre source code will be taken offline In-Reply-To: <86czotccpj.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87wnn1hcrr.fsf@netris.org> <86czotccpj.fsf@gmail.com> Organization: The GNU Project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; boundary="Sig_/iO6DfmbKER249zhkUwaX.St"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Message-Id: X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1632837786; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=Qn+SyGr5+0BLQzdis9nTN+YTMQSfPg+oFuL8WAO90V8=; b=RGJO9h/ZYJ47z67cbUQdJlreJZeToKCWgHjykzhQuRSUZHOVj/42ClSY6t/1B0GVceUCwz scwlkt6hush8XW1aC1tTpumSS7uWVV74VedZKmqolHOICJnTSHeOyIuaEgicIuy2wMtKC/ lusF+CthWcyJD3eJe/YxKSUqJowjyJrDMZuPRMc4gCm92DUIiPc40C1mqEQJgXeClvWGNB bBqFkS/+n80nD0h6L4Wa4LY9rpc0tFKCoTBuc8vk731S6bb8waJaIteko0G5hGB2WM2hXn VLk1dY2WiqVt01Qre5z24oay8aVGFPdCNvae9OPrAB9rpbtUFMGOLbeHG4KHzg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1632837786; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=qXn2fP/+yjGuuCRtNLLdUy2/8/bt7pZW4/tjopfpmxgJKt3GEN2U4elNth89vg7e+1nv9d dDPntquSEj0y2AFPd5CnyNHfy1EGs47cqJIWmvIO+ypJ8EXnc6TkZdT5Q502wRRcn/uQd7 pphfD4d/B/tu3b5PdRuxROtOdhF5mRnsv1MH3JEm1mUMl1Brdf7drU+O/Icqt2tOn95BdV J6yuchyQmXzqWkgZxx5i0WhW+LQFzOPE93OzkzcZKlG2Hd0BcwpPLgedmxqOcaci/0Oibc ww2trq+nAeY1seTwf33wMA6Cm5+rHouusimvtC4SdpfVpgFwVdT2h6KbYVAuLQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.00 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 63712B0FD X-Spam-Score: -5.00 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: NajnFWN0PjjL --Sig_/iO6DfmbKER249zhkUwaX.St Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 10:43:20 +0200 zimoun wrote: > Hi, >=20 > On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 at 17:46, Jason Self wrote: >=20 > [...] =20 > > > > Yes. In gen6. They have been moved, not deleted. > > > > The versioning and locations in terms of gnuN and genN are knowable > > and predictable in advance. I wonder if there is, or could be made, > > a way to leverage that so that future moving of files can be done > > without causing problems, as long as the files themselves remain > > otherwise identical. As an example, the current cleanup scripts > > might be found in old/gen7 in the future. Although using git would > > probably be a better choice as it would seem to eliminate URL > > hunting. =20 >=20 > Guix has the availability to transparently build any old version using > =E2=80=9Cguix time-machine=E2=80=9D, i.e., >=20 > guix time-machine --commit=3D0c7c84407d65f3d03ad1fe3984ae4d524992f498 > \ -- build linux-libre >=20 > should build the Linux (libre) kernel as it was on 2020, 25th May. >=20 > If the user allow substitutes, then the necessary materials is fetch > from machines hosted in Berlin and maintain by Guix folk. >=20 > However, if the user does not allow substitutes, then the source are > first fetched from upstream. Here several cases of origin. Upstream > is still up, everything is fine. Upstream disappeared in the > meantime, it depends on the =E2=80=9Ctype=E2=80=9D of the origin and the = core issue > is the mapping between the information at package time (e.g., 2020, > 25th May) and the servers providing a fallback at request time for > this missing source. >=20 > When the upstream source is a Git repo, this map is a simple > contend-addressed lookup by a (almost) straightforward resolver. >=20 > When the upstream source is not Git repo, this map becomes harder and > requires =E2=80=93 in addition to a fallback server =E2=80=93 an external= resolver: > something that maps from the information at package time (2020, 25th > May) to the fallback server. >=20 > If the package linux-libre defined on 2020, 25th May (written on > stone) points to an URL source which disappears, this Guix > time-machine feature becomes doomed because URL is a really bad > contend-addressed system as all the broken internet shows us. >=20 > For sure, the infrastructure needs to evolve for a better future; > easier maintainability for instance. However, please consider the > archivist point of view and help to not break the past. :-) It's not really breaking the past if this is how the past worked in reality: That previous generations of scripts are moved to old/genN, but more of Guix's representation of how the past worked which says that they not move, which doesn't reflect the actual reality of the past. The two don't seem equivalent. It seems that Guix can handle multiple download locations already, either from the main location or from others so why is the old/gen7 location not already in the kernel build recipe? If a new freedom problem were found that resulted in the need to come up with an 8th generation, the current ones will be findable in old/gen7. Is Guix build machinery currently aware of that and ready to check old/gen7 now for whenever that future move happens? If not, then this would seem to create future breakage when that happens. This move is 100% knowable and predictable in advance so why not have it ready for now and put old/gen7 into the recipe for the kernel, even if it's just an additional hardcoded URL and not something dynamically computed? If not, using git would seem to be a better choice. I'm not sure why it's not used already. --Sig_/iO6DfmbKER249zhkUwaX.St Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEE9hGpCP+hZcaZWE7UnQ2zG1RaMZgFAmFTIIEACgkQnQ2zG1Ra MZhQ+g//XY/7xW5wsNloblCXIr06aK21yHN9NNw00Tg8eJ2/2DgWLsCQ5wOXqAqI PsqdN3J2FHrCcTjCcgYp2f+9w3niPKqn1QdkZ1UxAHzoDL1MsYu9MYBhCZr4ieyt 5pkUIRHEJjy8g7QodiJE1LFuYJeVA2WxBbxfllUSy0EPCjOi2qnQwCu2q6ZY9/pj T1t85LKd5Qr7eC/VW6d0iLz68JY5WoMigZXihyhA8hKyVoLM/LonLj9446MlOdJZ qQ2bkfIGm49T/VXipt7/gu3CaA7tFUCI6D4u5WLXyQSyP/EG/JKGILHwyrTwBSG6 uZ+zPpPkTajKXKLwX8kuxyWgb5XQPJvkSXie5wp8Nk0rCpg+1WGiOmgip5gmLJtk 0owPUrFkUBWB/MfXIJusBsV29VNWnCm8BjL5M3vynTSCC8TX1lqhqkIX9Dwr8o1q 2SBDV84hbuyWK5YHnOX8EIPqnz9XogvAx+qbobnPs+kL1lZJugjyHFZ7R3ic9Jrf 0zgLasRSE1K9JPINclKfkyvh0hHw27dzy3IGZgXgd6W8Ky7cwrobpZZXufRjRsWh P37mv3ichhUp3+OCY8dwpOfkTF7DxLHEFK1NoOxv5FJWswKVAqz5f6QQR1ot1ErO 7swHeue+rNbHscCAJQ3cgLZjBPprDvjJYLIsgVN+DD43qrPZXZU= =cOxE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/iO6DfmbKER249zhkUwaX.St--