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Thu, 03 Oct 2024 13:23:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1727976193; x=1728235393; bh=D7EsaWq8hgNaAaV2Q2ItDaukkMs8F7LYkAvS5qi7oJw=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=akRv2DZUUi27irA55j3/AZE2E16IjqP4UoYma4rxZfJYCavxLYwabI9BG9OcAJE4Y 9et9M4v8FmkbJ7IWiUSXwTr78w50EpuVTyDkKNTjrugQEIAdkf3cQgdNk56A58lcFT xtz9qrq27ETKVLmtuCdWGEJjEvM4NZpwo9KddmC2O+OybHDiprI56iWEU9ZYGFrdk6 Z9FEtf8GW/4D5p4IcipTXYYtjEXRzPs1AOwNZvCz4WFM5ZQAZfdLLyG4Tg39CZ9gMs lfp1FPJn4CCU/vexYVp0JJImhi/OvcW7XmuTIzDeNOluK00jkLbEvl2VCAq83X0tWd pLjBFXEl9N7mw== Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2024 17:23:11 +0000 To: Ian Eure From: Kaelyn Cc: Morgan Arnold , guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: Status of ZFS support on Guix Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <87ikuahvpt.fsf@meson> References: <1Mf47p_itnKEwds_VcYBV9aLFb3hFNvpo7mAmlDX_F0ybwguolX_1BDAff46RZ1QDIDfvl1QsZkn_hWQj-g49y-VEYksiZvsq0r8-JblNYc=@proton.me> <87ikuahvpt.fsf@meson> Feedback-ID: 34709329:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 5fe082acf18c980832824c4a5ce63e94743889f7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.16; envelope-from=kaelyn.alexi@protonmail.com; helo=mail-4316.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.02 X-Spam-Score: -5.02 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 85EB57E2B4 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx13.migadu.com X-TUID: YYdpcAcfVFTm On Wednesday, October 2nd, 2024 at 5:18 PM, Ian Eure wro= te: >=20 >=20 > Hi Kaelyn, Morgan, >=20 > Kaelyn kaelyn.alexi@protonmail.com writes: >=20 > > On Tuesday, October 1st, 2024 at 1:23 PM, Morgan Arnold > > morgan.arnold@proton.me wrote: > >=20 > > I'd love to know where any opposition may be at as well. At this > > point > > I have a private channel which actually replaces much of the > > bootloader and initrd functionality (in part to support ZFS in > > the > > initrd using https://issues.guix.gnu.org/55231). In the past > > year, I > > actually took advantage of having basically replicated much of > > the > > initrd functionality in my channel to create a simple bootloader > > based > > on the Linux kernel (with the EFI stubloader) and a custom > > initrd that > > uses kexec to boot the actual system. It still needs a lot of > > polish, > > but has been good enough that combined with a few other small > > hacks > > and workarounds, I have several systems now booting with ZFS > > roots > > (some unencrypted, some using native encryption). I have done > > little > > to upstream most of it, or even to share what I've done, because > > of > > the seeming resistance to ZFS. >=20 >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t think there=E2=80=99s resistance to ZFS. I do think there= are > some legitimate open questions around licensing[1], but the main > issue seems to be that the contributor of #45692 chose to express > their frustration with the slow pace of Guix patch review[2] in > counterproductive and borderline abusive ways[3][4]. I'd like to believe there isn't resistance to ZFS, but at least part of my = perception that there is from #55231 with the discussion over a documentati= on patch about how to use "kernel-loadable-modules" in an operating-system = to include out-of-tree modules in the initrd starting https://issues.guix.g= nu.org/55231#14 (the original comment about ZFS being a bad example in the = documentation over potential code issues was https://issues.guix.gnu.org/55= 231#4). There was a bit of back and forth over the example was a bad one be= cause of potential ZFS licensing issues and "#:substitutable #f" mixing poo= rly with initrds, such that it is theoretical possible for a substitute wit= h the compiled ZFS kernel module to be downloaded from another user/server = and that it would count as distributing the ZFS module precompiled. The pat= ch series was then updated to remove the reference to ZFS in the documentat= ion, and the overall conversation (and forward progress on the patch series= ) seemed to completely stall e.g. with no further responses from the person= who raised the issue about using ZFS in the example. >=20 > Personally, I=E2=80=99d very much like to see improved support for ZFS in > Guix. I have one machine with a cobbled-together Guix ZFS setup, > but proper support is a blocker for moving my primary ZFS-using > system off Debian. I feel the same way, despite a lot of my local work and workarounds to have= ZFS roots on most of my Guix systems. Cheers, Kaelyn >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > =E2=80=94 Ian >=20 > [1]: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/45692#75 > [2]: Which I extremely sympathize with. > [3]: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/45692#72 > [4]: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/45692#78