[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[( via Guix-patches via]

* website/apps/base/templates/home.scm (home-t)[#:content]: Add a
  'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.
---
Heya Guix!

I thought the latest image was a wee bit too hard to find, so I added
a button for it here.

  -- (

 website/apps/base/templates/home.scm | 14 ++++++++++----
 1 file changed, 10 insertions(+), 4 deletions(-)

diff --git a/website/apps/base/templates/home.scm b/website/apps/base/templates/home.scm
index 7b72da8..db1707b 100644
--- a/website/apps/base/templates/home.scm
+++ b/website/apps/base/templates/home.scm
@@ -106,13 +106,19 @@ languages (EDSLs) to "
        ,(button-big
          #:label (apply string-append
                         (C_ "button" `("DOWNLOAD v" ,(latest-guix-version) "")))
-	 #:url (guix-url "download/")
-	 #:light #true)
+	     #:url (guix-url "download/")
+	     #:light #true)
        " " ; A space for readability in non-CSS browsers.
+       ,(button-big
+         #:label (apply string-append
+                        (C_ "button" `("DOWNLOAD LATEST")))
+	     #:url (guix-url "download/latest/")
+	     #:light #true)
+       " "
        ,(button-big
          #:label (C_ "button" "CONTRIBUTE")
-	 #:url (guix-url "contribute/")
-	 #:light #true)))
+	     #:url (guix-url "contribute/")
+	     #:light #true)))
 
      ;; Discover Guix.
      (section

base-commit: 7b8b85e5260aecec227ecc7ea392d105cbaa9626
-- 
2.38.1

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

Hello (

"( via Guix-patches" via <guix-patches@gnu.org> writes:
> * website/apps/base/templates/home.scm (home-t)[#:content]: Add a
>   'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

Good idea.

Would you add a copyright line or copyright disclaimer line and send an
updated patch?

>           #:label (apply string-append
>                          (C_ "button" `("DOWNLOAD v" ,(latest-guix-version) "")))
> […]
>         " " ; A space for readability in non-CSS browsers.
> +       ,(button-big
> +         #:label (apply string-append
> +                        (C_ "button" `("DOWNLOAD LATEST")))

In the DOWNLOAD LATEST button, could you remove the (apply string-append
and its now unmatched parenthesis?

It is a trick to concatenate the translations for "DOWNLOAD v", the
latest-guix-version and the translation for "".  But for "DOWNLOAD
LATEST", it is unneeded.

And maybe untabify the lines you change.

Other than that, LGTM, thank you!

Regards,
Florian

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

"pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de> writes:
> Would you add a copyright line or copyright disclaimer line and send an
> updated patch?

P.S. I am unsure if a copyright line is already warranted, but in doubt,
I ask for one.

Regards,
Florian

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

"pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de> writes:
> "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de> writes:
>> Would you add a copyright line or copyright disclaimer line and send an
>> updated patch?
> P.S. I am unsure if a copyright line is already warranted, but in doubt,
> I ask for one.

Excuse my bad judgment.  No updated patch needed.  I will apply as is.

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[( via Guix-patches via]

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Heya,

On Sun Dec 4, 2022 at 9:50 PM GMT, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
> Would you add a copyright line or copyright disclaimer line and send an
> updated patch?

Oops :)

> In the DOWNLOAD LATEST button, could you remove the (apply string-append
> and its now unmatched parenthesis?
>
> It is a trick to concatenate the translations for "DOWNLOAD v", the
> latest-guix-version and the translation for "".  But for "DOWNLOAD
> LATEST", it is unneeded.

Ah. I'll do that, yeah :)

    -- (

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[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[( via Guix-patches via]

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On Sun Dec 4, 2022 at 10:03 PM GMT, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
> Excuse my bad judgment.  No updated patch needed.  I will apply as is.

Oh, okay, never mind :)

    -- (

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[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

Hi (

Sorry for my mails yesternight.
After some sleep, I have second thoughts.

With prominent links to 1.3.0 and to the latest version, users might
think, of course they want latest.  The 1.3.0 version got QA testing and
is more likely to not get broken, even though latest might work on newer
hardware.

So maybe better not lead users to the untested version.

Agreed?  Can I close the bug without applying the patch?

Regards,
Florian

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[zimoun]

Hi,

On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 at 09:00, "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de> wrote:

> So maybe better not lead users to the untested version.
>
> Agreed?  Can I close the bug without applying the patch?

Well, maybe the « latest » could be more discoverable.  For instance,
when an user is here:

https://guix.gnu.org/

then they click to the button « DOWNLOAD v1.3.0 ».  Moreover nothing
mention upfront the latest version.  The user has to click on top right
Download and select «Latest» – probably not done when they have already
seen the button.  I agree that another «Download latest» on the
frontpage could be confusing.

Instead, I propose, on the webpage,

https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/

and in the header,

        As of version 1.3.0, the standalone Guix System can be installed
        on an i686, x86_64, ARMv7, or AArch64 machine. It uses the
        Linux-Libre kernel and the GNU Shepherd init
        system. Alternately, GNU Guix can be installed as an additional
        package manager on top of an installed Linux-based system.

this sentence could be added,

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
These images are well-tested released images, and since Guix follows
rolling release model, you might prefer to use [latest images](https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/latest/)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

WDYT?

Cheers,
simon

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[( via Guix-patches via]

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On Mon Dec 5, 2022 at 8:00 AM GMT, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
> With prominent links to 1.3.0 and to the latest version, users might
> think, of course they want latest.  The 1.3.0 version got QA testing and
> is more likely to not get broken, even though latest might work on newer
> hardware.

Yes, I thought of this possibility. How about "Download nightly" instead?
    -- (

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[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

Hi all.

My reluctance is because there isn’t an advantage to using the latest image.

zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> writes:
> this sentence could be added,
>
> These images are well-tested released images, and since Guix follows
> rolling release model, you might prefer to use [latest images](https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/latest/)

This is not a reason.  On the contrary, users of 1.3.0 will get the
current software once they upgrade.

I can think of one consequence of using the 1.3.0 image: Users might
have to adapt the generated config.scm once they pull and reconfigure.
For example, because of changes in the swap-space definition.  But this
isn’t really a downside, since the OS configuration is the reason to use
Guix on Guix System instead of a foreign distro.

There maybe is hardware that is not yet supported on standard installer
images.  But it doesn’t need to be mentioned.  There are no cutting edge
hardware users on a libre distro, are there?  Except those using tainted
versions of the installer, not offered here.

Lastly, I’m reluctant to change existing sentences, because they will
not be translated soon enough.

Am I mistaken?

Regards,
Florian

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

"pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de> writes:
> My reluctance is because there isn’t an advantage to using the latest image.
> […]
> Am I mistaken?

Granted, there were bugs in the installer like <https://issues.guix.gnu.org/58377>.

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[zimoun]

Hi,

On Mon, 05 Dec 2022 at 18:06, "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de> wrote:

> zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> writes:
>> this sentence could be added,
>>
>> These images are well-tested released images, and since Guix follows
>> rolling release model, you might prefer to use [latest images](https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/latest/)
>
> This is not a reason.  On the contrary, users of 1.3.0 will get the
> current software once they upgrade.

It appears to me that this choice is up to the user. :-)

BTW, since the release are less frequent than we would all like, some
bugs in the v1.3 installer had been fixed.  I do not have examples at
hand (because I am too lazy to dig the bug tracker ;-)) but some reports
have been closed with “already fixed, give a try to the new installer”.


> I can think of one consequence of using the 1.3.0 image: Users might
> have to adapt the generated config.scm once they pull and reconfigure.
> For example, because of changes in the swap-space definition.  But this
> isn’t really a downside, since the OS configuration is the reason to use
> Guix on Guix System instead of a foreign distro.
>
> There maybe is hardware that is not yet supported on standard installer
> images.  But it doesn’t need to be mentioned.  There are no cutting edge
> hardware users on a libre distro, are there?  Except those using tainted
> versions of the installer, not offered here.

Well, I think it is worth to mention from this webpage

    https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/

the latest development webpage

    https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/latest/
 
Therefore, I still propose on the webpage <https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/>
to add this sentence:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
These images are well-tested released images, and since Guix follows
rolling release model, the [latest development images are
here](https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/latest/).
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

WDYT?


> Lastly, I’m reluctant to change existing sentences, because they will
> not be translated soon enough.

To me, this patch is orthogonal to release 1.4.  Well, if you think it
is better to apply after the publication of the release, that’s fine. :-)


Cheers,
simon

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

Yes (’s patch was merely about discoverability of the latest installer
page, that already exists.  Also the latest installer page has a warning
that points users to the standard installer.  So we could push

diff --git a/website/apps/base/templates/home.scm b/website/apps/base/templates/home.scm
index 7b72da8..26d07cd 100644
--- a/website/apps/base/templates/home.scm
+++ b/website/apps/base/templates/home.scm
@@ -109,6 +109,11 @@ languages (EDSLs) to "
         #:url (guix-url "download/")
         #:light #true)
        " " ; A space for readability in non-CSS browsers.
+       ,(button-big
+         #:label (C_ "button" "DOWNLOAD LATEST")
+         #:url (guix-url "download/latest/")
+         #:light #true)
+       " "
        ,(button-big
          #:label (C_ "button" "CONTRIBUTE")
         #:url (guix-url "contribute/")

--

But then, shouldn’t we tell users there are bugs in the standard image and
they better use latest?

Could we maybe wait until such reasons pop up for 1.4.0?  Or have a new
standard installer independent of the Guix release?

Mathieu will know better, but I think there were few issues with 1.3.0
(UUID checks in commit f5d9d6ec68f78f5651bd5a698f489ab57bf77d5d) but
latest has better logging.  On the other hand, the latest installer had
few new bugs except missing mkfs.ext4.

> Therefore, I still propose on the webpage <https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/>
> to add this sentence:
>
> These images are well-tested released images, and since Guix follows
> rolling release model, the [latest development images are
> here](https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/latest/).

Why mention rolling release?

> To me, this patch is orthogonal to release 1.4.  Well, if you think it
> is better to apply after the publication of the release, that’s fine. :-)

Indeed timing isn’t very relevant.

Regards,
Florian

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[zimoun]

Hi,

On Tue, 06 Dec 2022 at 17:33, "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de> wrote:

> Yes (’s patch was merely about discoverability of the latest installer
> page, that already exists.  Also the latest installer page has a warning
> that points users to the standard installer.  So we could push

For what it is worth, I think it is better to keep the front page with
only 2 buttons: “Download v1.x“ and “Contribute”.

For discoverability, what I propose instead is to redirect the users
from,

    https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/

If the user does not read the header or is not interested in, they can
process with the current released images.  Otherwise, as I propose, a
mention to the latest development, and hop to the other page,

    https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/latest/


> But then, shouldn’t we tell users there are bugs in the standard image and
> they better use latest?

By mentioning in the header of:

    https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/

For example, it reads,

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
As of version 1.3.0, the standalone Guix System can be installed on an
i686, x86_64, ARMv7, or AArch64 machine. It uses the Linux-Libre kernel
and the GNU Shepherd init system. Alternately, GNU Guix can be installed
as an additional package manager on top of an installed Linux-based
system.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Therefore, we can add here one sentence or two for mentioning 1. the
latest download webpage and 2. the potential issue.


> Could we maybe wait until such reasons pop up for 1.4.0?  Or have a new
> standard installer independent of the Guix release?

As every program, bugs are around. ;-)  I mean, I do not see why we
should wait.


> Mathieu will know better, but I think there were few issues with 1.3.0
> (UUID checks in commit f5d9d6ec68f78f5651bd5a698f489ab57bf77d5d) but
> latest has better logging.  On the other hand, the latest installer had
> few new bugs except missing mkfs.ext4.

From my opinion, the latest installer has less bugs than the v1.3 one. :-)


>> Therefore, I still propose on the webpage <https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/>
>> to add this sentence:
>>
>> These images are well-tested released images, and since Guix follows
>> rolling release model, the [latest development images are
>> here](https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/latest/).
>
> Why mention rolling release?

It is a proposal. :-) I do not know if it is the correct wording.  The
idea is to explain that the installer is continuously improved.  The
model is not stable (release) vs unstable (development) but instead
frozen (release) vs latest.  And mention (point) this latest webpage.

I think this proposal about mentioning the latest download webpage from
the current release webpage improves about discoverability.  And it
keeps the usual entry point with the current release – for sure, it is
well-tested and it should be the recommended way for installing.

Cheers,
simon

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

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zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> writes:
> It is a proposal. :-) I do not know if it is the correct wording.  The
> idea is to explain that the installer is continuously improved.

What about the attached patch?  With picture.
The download latest page can do the explanation.

(Again I prefer to have a copyright line.  Small patches accumulate and
their sum gives copyright, affirming the AGPL3.)

Regards,
Florian


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From 9ac14dfebdd9f82c6611843cac63c93c79e0f87a Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Florian Pelz <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de>
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2022 13:02:57 +0100
Subject: [PATCH] website: download: Tell users about CI images.

Fixes <https://issues.guix.gnu.org/59822>.
Suggestions by ( <paren@disroot.org>
and Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com>.

* website/apps/download/data.scm (): Mention them.
---
 website/apps/download/data.scm | 6 +++++-
 1 file changed, 5 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)

diff --git a/website/apps/download/data.scm b/website/apps/download/data.scm
index 2e54bb4..5718894 100644
--- a/website/apps/download/data.scm
+++ b/website/apps/download/data.scm
@@ -1,4 +1,5 @@
 ;;; GNU Guix web site
+;;; Copyright © 2022 Florian Pelz <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de>
 ;;; Initially written by sirgazil who waives all
 ;;; copyright interest on this file.
 
@@ -21,7 +22,10 @@
                 (string-append "GNU Guix System " (latest-guix-version) ""))
     #:description
     `(div
-      ,(G_ `(p "USB/DVD ISO installer of the standalone Guix System.")))
+      ,(G_ `(p "USB/DVD ISO installer of the standalone Guix System.
+You can also get "
+,(G_ `(a (@ (href ,(guix-url "download/latest/"))) "continuously improved
+images")) ".")))
     #:image (guix-url "static/base/img/GuixSD-package.png")
     #:base-url (string-append "https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/guix/guix-system-install-"
 			      (latest-guix-version) ".")
-- 
2.38.1

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

"pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de> writes:
> What about the attached patch?  With picture.

No, my proposed patch is bad.  Users would still be guided to use the CI
image, just with an extra step, in which case we’d better link to CI
directly.  Same thing if the sentence “You can also use the continuously
improved installer image” were part of the page header.

Preferrably replace the standard installer, in case important fixes,
debug features or so get added to the installer.  For example by
branching off v1.4.0 (or whatever is the latest version), cherry picking
the installer fixes, and merging that installer branch back into master
so that one can reconfigure from it (see
<https://issues.guix.gnu.org/59780#6>).

I would like to close.

Regards,
Florian

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[zimoun]

Hi,

On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 at 10:36, "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de> wrote:

> No, my proposed patch is bad.  Users would still be guided to use the CI
> image, just with an extra step, in which case we’d better link to CI
> directly.  Same thing if the sentence “You can also use the continuously
> improved installer image” were part of the page header.

[...]

> I would like to close.

As you want.  But I still think that we implicitly know because we are
around is not explicit and can be confusing.  The implicit knowledge is:

 - released installer/images/etc are the standard, but…
 - latest installer/images/etc. have probably less bugs.

I miss why write an sentence in this webpage
<https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/> mentioning this webpage
<https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/latest/> would be detrimental.

Note that from the front page <https://guix.gnu.org/>, top right,
Download mentions Latest.  From this latest webpage, there is a link to
the Standard webpage.  Why would the converse be an issue?

Well, I think we have enough discussed. :-)  I mean, if you prefer to
close and keep the status quo, all is fine with me. :-)


Cheers,
simon

bug#59822: [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> writes:
>  - released installer/images/etc are the standard, but…
>  - latest installer/images/etc. have probably less bugs.

Latest sometimes has relevant bugs like mkfs.ext4 missing; it cannot be
the solution.  When standard installer images have more bugs than
latest, there should be a new standard image.

Closing.

Regards,
Florian

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[( via Guix-patches via]

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On Thu Dec 8, 2022 at 11:50 AM GMT, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
> Closing.

:(

On Mon Dec 5, 2022 at 04:51 PM GMT, ( wrote:
> Yes, I thought of this possibility. How about "Download nightly" instead?

    -- (

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[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

"(" <paren@disroot.org> writes:
> On Mon Dec 5, 2022 at 8:00 AM GMT, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
>> With prominent links to 1.3.0 and to the latest version, users might
>> think, of course they want latest.  The 1.3.0 version got QA testing and
>> is more likely to not get broken, even though latest might work on newer
>> hardware.
>
> Yes, I thought of this possibility. How about "Download nightly" instead?
>     -- (

Reopen.  Dust hasn’t set yet on the issue.

Sorry I have read but not responded directly.  In my view, the word
nightly would be less understandable than latest, for better or worse.
But recommending CI images still collides a good user experience.

CI images are for developers and testers.  The standard installer did
not get bug fixes in the 1.3.0 period, but it can and should.  It is
possible to put up a new installer without a new Guix release.

Regards,
Florian

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[( via Guix-patches via]

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On Thu Dec 8, 2022 at 4:44 PM GMT, pelzflorian (Florian Pelz) wrote:
> CI images are for developers and testers.  The standard installer did
> not get bug fixes in the 1.3.0 period, but it can and should.  It is
> possible to put up a new installer without a new Guix release.

Oh, that's a fair point.

    -- (

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[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[zimoun]

Hi Florian, all,

On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 at 17:44, "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de> wrote:

> CI images are for developers and testers.  The standard installer did
> not get bug fixes in the 1.3.0 period, but it can and should.  It is
> possible to put up a new installer without a new Guix release.

I do not want to bother more but this paragraph suggests an other
direction. :-)

The front page <https://guix.gnu.org/> contains the explicit version
number with the button «Download v1.3.0».  Why not, just remove this
version label and just have the button «Download»?

This button «Download» leads to «https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/».
Here, we could do the same as we do for the package guix, for instance
use the version label 1.3.0-8.abc123 for some images.

However, it means that we need to update <https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/guix/>
each time the recommended standard installer or other receives important
fixes.  It does not happen that much often. :-)

Well, I mean being able to update independently some images of «GNU Guix
binary» and «GNU Guix System» without going to the big dance of a
complete release.

Obviously, we could have more frequent releases; which would fix most of
the issue. :-) But, we do not have.  Somehow being able to update the
standard downloadable installer without creating a new release appears
to me a good solution.

In addition to Ludo, who has the power to upload (and sign) the images
to <https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/guix/>?


Cheers,
simon

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

Hello,

zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> writes:
> Well, I mean being able to update independently some images of «GNU Guix
> binary» and «GNU Guix System» without going to the big dance of a
> complete release.

Why update the binary?  guix pull will work.  The only important changes
are to the installer program and its dependencies (cryptsetup, parted,
etc).

> In addition to Ludo, who has the power to upload (and sign) the images
> to <https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/guix/>?

Admittedly I do not know the process of uploading to gnu.org.  My
thought was that cherrypicking installer fixes back to, say, 1.4.0 is
easy.  Manual install would work like the manual says.  The initial
install would be more polished.

Maybe I’m wrong though and cherrypicking fixes isn’t worth it compared
to the CI image, and testing the installer really is about getting bugs
squashed and not so much about polish.

Regards,
Florian

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi,

zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> skribis:

> The front page <https://guix.gnu.org/> contains the explicit version
> number with the button «Download v1.3.0».  Why not, just remove this
> version label and just have the button «Download»?

Because people would be downloading the snapshot of the day, for which
we haven’t done as much testing as during a regular release process.

The release process is not just ceremonial; over the last couple of
months, we’ve put a lot of effort actually fixing things, in particular
in the installer.  Releases make sense IMO.

[...]

> In addition to Ludo, who has the power to upload (and sign) the images
> to <https://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/guix/>?

The process to be authorized to upload files to ftp.gnu.org and
alpha.gnu.org is described in the GNU Maintainers Guide (info
"(maintain) Automated FTP Uploads").  Maintainers can ask GNU sysadmins
to add specific people to the list of authorized uploaders.

Currently, I believe Ricardo, Maxim, Mathieu, and myself are authorized.
We’ll make sure the next release team is authorized too!

Ludo’.

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[zimoun]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1342 bytes --]

Hi,

On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 at 14:40, Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> wrote:
> zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> skribis:
>
>> The front page <https://guix.gnu.org/> contains the explicit version
>> number with the button «Download v1.3.0».  Why not, just remove this
>> version label and just have the button «Download»?
>
> Because people would be downloading the snapshot of the day, for which
> we haven’t done as much testing as during a regular release process.

I do not see why just the button «Download» instead of the button
«Download v1.4.0» would lead to people downloading something else than
the link, i.e., the webpage named <https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/>.


> The release process is not just ceremonial; over the last couple of
> months, we’ve put a lot of effort actually fixing things, in particular
> in the installer.  Releases make sense IMO.

Yes, for sure!  Release makes sense.  I do not think someone is
advocating for removing the release itself. :-)

From my understanding, the patch is about discoverability of the latest
Download webpage; this one: <https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/latest/>.

I am still missing why from the Standard download webpage
<https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/>, the mention to the Latest download
webpage would be detrimental or confusing.


[-- Attachment #2: patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-diff, Size: 1365 bytes --]

diff --git a/website/apps/base/templates/home.scm b/website/apps/base/templates/home.scm
index 7b72da8..5bbbd70 100644
--- a/website/apps/base/templates/home.scm
+++ b/website/apps/base/templates/home.scm
@@ -105,7 +105,7 @@ languages (EDSLs) to "
        (@ (class "action-box centered-text"))
        ,(button-big
          #:label (apply string-append
-                        (C_ "button" `("DOWNLOAD v" ,(latest-guix-version) "")))
+                        (C_ "button" '("DOWNLOAD")))
 	 #:url (guix-url "download/")
 	 #:light #true)
        " " ; A space for readability in non-CSS browsers.
diff --git a/website/apps/download/templates/download.scm b/website/apps/download/templates/download.scm
index bcf3cd2..9924917 100644
--- a/website/apps/download/templates/download.scm
+++ b/website/apps/download/templates/download.scm
@@ -65,7 +65,8 @@ Package manager") #\|)
           ,(G_ `(a (@ (href ,(gnu-url "software/shepherd"))) "GNU Shepherd"))
           " init system. Alternately, GNU Guix
           can be installed as an additional package manager on top of an
-          installed Linux-based system."))
+          installed Linux-based system.  The latest development snapshots are available"
+          ,(G_ `(a (@ (href ,(guix-url "download-latest/"))) "here."))))
 
       (div
        (@ (class "centered-text"))

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 19 bytes --]


Cheers,
simon

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

Hi all.

Making latest more discoverable would be unlikely to make it used
exactly by the select few in need of its features.

Probably we better remove latest from the top menu?

I wouldn’t want newcomers to go for latest because hey, it’s displayed
prominently and newer.  The installation routine for the latest
installer image also may break.  Or after installation, some software is
broken.  Which would mean the initial install is broken, and no
roll-back is available.

In the past, the Guix System latest install image also got better
debugging support, but now a new release with debug features is there,
this will not be relevant again.

Regards,
Florian

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hello!

zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> skribis:

> On Wed, 21 Dec 2022 at 14:40, Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> wrote:
>> zimoun <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> skribis:
>>
>>> The front page <https://guix.gnu.org/> contains the explicit version
>>> number with the button «Download v1.3.0».  Why not, just remove this
>>> version label and just have the button «Download»?
>>
>> Because people would be downloading the snapshot of the day, for which
>> we haven’t done as much testing as during a regular release process.
>
> I do not see why just the button «Download» instead of the button
> «Download v1.4.0» would lead to people downloading something else than
> the link, i.e., the webpage named <https://guix.gnu.org/en/download/>.

Oh sorry, I had totally misunderstood.  :-)

No strong opinion about whether or not to keep “v1.4.0” on the button.
It nobody objects, we can apply those patches.

"pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de> skribis:

> Making latest more discoverable would be unlikely to make it used
> exactly by the select few in need of its features.
>
> Probably we better remove latest from the top menu?
>
> I wouldn’t want newcomers to go for latest because hey, it’s displayed
> prominently and newer.  The installation routine for the latest
> installer image also may break.  Or after installation, some software is
> broken.  Which would mean the initial install is broken, and no
> roll-back is available.

Yes, I agree.  But then, where would you put the link to /latest?

Or maybe we can keep it in the menu but add a prominent warning on the
page stating that these are snapshots that haven’t seen as much QA?

Ludo’.

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

Ludovic Courtès <ludo@gnu.org> writes:
> No strong opinion about whether or not to keep “v1.4.0” on the button.
> It nobody objects, we can apply those patches.

Yes.  Sorry for ignoring this side issue.

I like knowing the version, but the version is everywhere on the
download page.  Renaming the button gives us more options what to put on
the download page.  And now the front page translations have to be
adapted anyway because the word advanced is rightfully gone now.

Pushed as a51b8d4cc5a2a1d268edecb2417e728eae8dd2b7, I hope it is OK.


> But then, where would you put the link to /latest?

We could remove the link to latest, but keep the /latest page online
without linking to it, because people have hyperlinks pointing there.

And also move the Hurd and Pinebook Pro image to the regular downloads.
Even though for these, we might want to make releases instead of CI
images?  I guess not; also I cannot test Pinebook Pro.  I don’t know.


> Or maybe we can keep it in the menu but add a prominent warning on the
> page stating that these are snapshots that haven’t seen as much QA?

The warning is already there and I think it is prominent.

Regards,
Florian

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[Simon Tournier]

Hi,

On sam., 07 janv. 2023 at 08:29, "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de> wrote:

> We could remove the link to latest, but keep the /latest page online
> without linking to it, because people have hyperlinks pointing there.

From my point of view, a webpage without internal links pointing to it
is a dead and hidden webpage.


> And also move the Hurd and Pinebook Pro image to the regular downloads.
> Even though for these, we might want to make releases instead of CI
> images?  I guess not; also I cannot test Pinebook Pro.  I don’t know.

From my point of view, it make clearer to have two separated webpages:
one for the well-tested and somehow released and frozen images; another
one for development wild images built by CI.


Cheers,
simon

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@gmail.com> writes:
> From my point of view, a webpage without internal links pointing to it
> is a dead and hidden webpage.

Yes without internal links really is not nice, but despite all that,
wouldn’t newcomers feel confused if we present them a choice?  Wouldn’t
newcomers who download a non-working latest put the blame on GNU Guix?

Regards,
Florian

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[Simon Tournier]

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Hi Florianm

On Mon, 09 Jan 2023 at 20:35, "pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)" <pelzflorian@pelzflorian.de> wrote:

> Yes without internal links really is not nice, but despite all that,
> wouldn’t newcomers feel confused if we present them a choice?  Wouldn’t
> newcomers who download a non-working latest put the blame on GNU Guix?

I speak for myself when using a random project elsewhere.  Usually, I do
not feel confused if it is really clear what is the recommended product
and what is the experimental one; and what I can expect from each
product.

And when this distinction is clear, I do not blame this very project if
the experimental is not working as expected.  Somehow, I consider that I
am able to make my own choices. :-)

To me, the situation is already clear with Guix.  Maybe we could improve
the wording although I find it clear. ;-)

The recommendation is the release.  From the front webpage, it is where
the newcomer is redirected when clicking on the large Download button.

Moreover, the top menu Download lists Standard or Latest.  The Standard
redirects to the release.  And the Latest redirects to a webpage using
the term “development snapshots”, which is pretty clear, IMHO.

My suggestion was about discoverability.

As currently, keep very clear that the release download webpage
(standard) is the recommendation.  From this webpage, I am suggesting to
add a mention to the experimental (development snapshots) webpage.  For
instance, such download-latest contains Hurd or Pinebook images.

Well, WDYT about this patch?


[-- Attachment #2: patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-diff, Size: 782 bytes --]

diff --git a/website/apps/download/templates/download.scm b/website/apps/download/templates/download.scm
index bcf3cd2..34d1d5f 100644
--- a/website/apps/download/templates/download.scm
+++ b/website/apps/download/templates/download.scm
@@ -65,7 +65,9 @@ Package manager") #\|)
           ,(G_ `(a (@ (href ,(gnu-url "software/shepherd"))) "GNU Shepherd"))
           " init system. Alternately, GNU Guix
           can be installed as an additional package manager on top of an
-          installed Linux-based system."))
+          installed Linux-based system.  For other images including GNU Hurd,
+please consider the"
+          ,(G_ `(a (@ (href ,(guix-url "download-latest/"))) "experimental snapshots."))))
 
       (div
        (@ (class "centered-text"))

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 16 bytes --]



Cheers,
simon

[bug#59822] [PATCH guix-artwork] website: base: home: Add 'DOWNLOAD LATEST' button.

[pelzflorian (Florian Pelz)]

Hi Simon,

Our vision differs in

1) the downloads page mentioning latest and

2) the top menu mentioning latest.

About 1), although I agree adding your text to the downloads page is an
improvement for discoverability, I don’t like that your patch gives
people the impression they get any advantage from experimental builds.

*A disagreement.*

About 2), the top menu.

Consider a user who reads little but wants to try Guix.  And that user
does not read the main part of the homepage but follows the top menu.
Such people exist, I guess, and are important.  I claim that

a) the distinction between standard and latest falsely suggests that
   latest is more current, more up-to-date, more appealing.

   *We are in disagreement about if the distinction is clear.*

b) And I claim that in contrast to the past situation when the
   distinction was necessary, now that we have 1.4.0 and its more
   debuggable installer image, there will be no purpose in advertising
   latest anymore, that is, no advertisement of ci.guix.gnu.org images
   is needed.

   *This b) is the same disagreement as in 1).*

IMHO we should hide the latest category in the top menu and make two new
categories.

One Hurd category could cater to users with hardware that can run Hurd,
who like Hurd’s features and who don’t like that Linux-libre is
monolithic and has bad GPLv2 licensing.  But as of now, unlike Debian,
Guix’s Hurd only runs on QEMU?

One ARM category could offer, well, I don’t exactly know, is the
Pinebook Pro image an upgradeable Guix System or a transient image?

These offerings are not polished.

I will not take the time to think
about a patch removing latest now though.

Regards,
Florian