substitute for Skype

substitute for Skype

[Gottfried]

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Hi Guixers,

is there a substitute for Skype available in Guix?

I don't want to use Skype as a Microsoft Programm.

Gottfried

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Re: substitute for Skype

[(]

On Mon Aug 1, 2022 at 12:00 PM BST, Gottfried wrote:
> is there a substitute for Skype available in Guix?
Try GNU Jami or Mumble. (Not sure how good these are, I just know that
they do video conferencing.)

    -- (

Re: substitute for Skype

[Akib Azmain Turja]

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Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> writes:

> Hi Guixers,
>
> is there a substitute for Skype available in Guix?
>
> I don't want to use Skype as a Microsoft Programm.
>
> Gottfried
>
>

There is a software named Jitsi Meet, through I think that's not what
you want.

-- 
Akib Azmain Turja

Find me on Mastodon at @akib@hostux.social.

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Re: substitute for Skype

[(]

On Mon Aug 1, 2022 at 12:55 PM BST, Akib Azmain Turja wrote:
> There is a software named Jitsi Meet, through I think that's not what
> you want.
Also, Jitsi only really has a web application. (There *is* a desktop app,
but it's written in Java and appears to be abandoned, and it's not in
Guix.)

    -- (

Re: substitute for Skype

[Maxim Cournoyer]

Hi Gottfried,

"(" <paren@disroot.org> writes:

> On Mon Aug 1, 2022 at 12:55 PM BST, Akib Azmain Turja wrote:
>> There is a software named Jitsi Meet, through I think that's not what
>> you want.
> Also, Jitsi only really has a web application. (There *is* a desktop app,
> but it's written in Java and appears to be abandoned, and it's not in
> Guix.)

I think Jami may be the closest thing to Skype we have.  If you are
interested in setting up persistent conference rooms, you may be
interested in the jami-service-type as well, which makes it easy to host
such on headless servers.

Thanks,

Maxim

Re: substitute for Skype

[Gottfried]

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Thanks for all answers,

I want to use my laptop and talk to somebody or even exeptionally to 
others (several people) in a room, connected through one laptop. 
(through more laptops - I haven't done it yet, so I don't know)

Earlier I used Skype.

Jitsi Meet isn't in guix. But Jami is there.


There are 8 packages for Jami, do I need to install all of them?


ffmpeg-jami	4.4.2	Audio and video framework	htttps://www.ffmpeg.org/

jami	20220726.1515.da8d1da	Qt Jami client	https://jami.net

jami-gnome	20220726.1515.da8d1da	Qt Jami client	https://jami.net

jami-qt	20220726.1515.da8d1da	Qt Jami client	https://jami.net

libjami	20220726.1515.da8d1da	Jami core library and daemon	https://jami.net/

libring	20220726.1515.da8d1da	Jami core library and daemon	https://jami.net/

node-jsondiffpatch	0.3.11	Diff & Patch for Javascript objects 
https://github.com/benjamine/jsondiffpatch

pjproject-jami	2.11-0.e1f389d	Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) stack 
https://www.pjsip.org



Additionally, I guess, I have to set up "jami-service-type"

Gottfried



Am 01.08.22 um 14:36 schrieb Maxim Cournoyer:
> Hi Gottfried,
> 
> "(" <paren@disroot.org> writes:
> 
>> On Mon Aug 1, 2022 at 12:55 PM BST, Akib Azmain Turja wrote:
>>> There is a software named Jitsi Meet, through I think that's not what
>>> you want.
>> Also, Jitsi only really has a web application. (There *is* a desktop app,
>> but it's written in Java and appears to be abandoned, and it's not in
>> Guix.)
> 
> I think Jami may be the closest thing to Skype we have.  If you are
> interested in setting up persistent conference rooms, you may be
> interested in the jami-service-type as well, which makes it easy to host
> such on headless servers.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Maxim


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Re: substitute for Skype

[(]

On Mon Aug 1, 2022 at 4:26 PM BST, Gottfried wrote:
> jami	20220726.1515.da8d1da	Qt Jami client	https://jami.net
You want this one. The rest are all internal things, except for:

> jami-gnome	20220726.1515.da8d1da	Qt Jami client	https://jami.net
which is a legacy client, based on GTK. They've switched to using
Qt for the client.

> Additionally, I guess, I have to set up "jami-service-type"
Only if you need a rendezvous point, which you probably don't.

    -- (

Re: substitute for Skype

[Gottfried]

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Hi Guixers,

Sorry, I forgot to mention "mumble" besides "Jami" and "Jitsi Meet".

Only Jami and  Mumble are available in Guix.

mumble: Version 1.4.230
Defined at	gnu/packages/telephony.scm:556 (guix channel)
Installation command: guix install mumble

------------------------------------
Package details of mumble

Mumble is an low-latency, high quality voice chat software primarily 
intended for use while gaming. Mumble consists of two applications for 
separate usage: mumble for the client, and murmur for the server.

There is 1 version available for this package.

Home page	https://wiki.mumble.info/wiki/Main_Page
-------------------------------------------------------------------

cl-murmurhash	0.0.0-1.5433f5e	32-bit version of Murmurhash3 for Common 
Lisp	https://github.com/ruricolist/cl-murmurhash/

ecl-cl-murmurhash	0.0.0-1.5433f5e	32-bit version of Murmurhash3 for 
Common Lisp	https://github.com/ruricolist/cl-murmurhash/

ghc-murmur-hash	0.1.0.9	MurmurHash2 implementation for Haskell 
https://github.com/nominolo/murmur-hash

go-github-com-spaolacci-murmur3	1.1.0	Native MurmurHash3 Go 
implementation	https://github.com/spaolacci/murmur3

go-github-com-twmb-murmur3	1.1.3	Native MurmurHash3 Go implementation 
https://github.com/twmb/murmur3

node-emotion-hash	0.6.6	A MurmurHash2 implementation	false
python-murmurhash	1.0.7	Cython bindings for MurmurHash2	
https://github.com/explosion/murmurhash

python-murmurhash3	2.3.5	Python wrapper for MurmurHash (MurmurHash3) 
https://github.com/veegee/mmh3

sbcl-cl-murmurhash	0.0.0-1.5433f5e	32-bit version of Murmurhash3 for 
Common Lisp	https://github.com/ruricolist/cl-murmurhash/
	


There are 10 packages available for mumble.
1 for mumble, 9 for murmur, which belong together, as far as I 
understand it.

Has somebody got experience with Jami or Mumble?

Gottfried



Am 01.08.22 um 17:26 schrieb Gottfried:
> Thanks for all answers,
> 
> I want to use my laptop and talk to somebody or even exeptionally to 
> others (several people) in a room, connected through one laptop. 
> (through more laptops - I haven't done it yet, so I don't know)
> 
> Earlier I used Skype.
> 
> Jitsi Meet isn't in guix. But Jami is there.
> 
> 
> There are 8 packages for Jami, do I need to install all of them?
> 
> 
> ffmpeg-jami    4.4.2    Audio and video framework    
> htttps://www.ffmpeg.org/
> 
> jami    20220726.1515.da8d1da    Qt Jami client    https://jami.net
> 
> jami-gnome    20220726.1515.da8d1da    Qt Jami client    https://jami.net
> 
> jami-qt    20220726.1515.da8d1da    Qt Jami client    https://jami.net
> 
> libjami    20220726.1515.da8d1da    Jami core library and daemon    
> https://jami.net/
> 
> libring    20220726.1515.da8d1da    Jami core library and daemon    
> https://jami.net/
> 
> node-jsondiffpatch    0.3.11    Diff & Patch for Javascript objects 
> https://github.com/benjamine/jsondiffpatch
> 
> pjproject-jami    2.11-0.e1f389d    Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) 
> stack https://www.pjsip.org
> 
> 
> 
> Additionally, I guess, I have to set up "jami-service-type"
> 
> Gottfried
> 
> 
> 
> Am 01.08.22 um 14:36 schrieb Maxim Cournoyer:
>> Hi Gottfried,
>>
>> "(" <paren@disroot.org> writes:
>>
>>> On Mon Aug 1, 2022 at 12:55 PM BST, Akib Azmain Turja wrote:
>>>> There is a software named Jitsi Meet, through I think that's not what
>>>> you want.
>>> Also, Jitsi only really has a web application. (There *is* a desktop 
>>> app,
>>> but it's written in Java and appears to be abandoned, and it's not in
>>> Guix.)
>>
>> I think Jami may be the closest thing to Skype we have.  If you are
>> interested in setting up persistent conference rooms, you may be
>> interested in the jami-service-type as well, which makes it easy to host
>> such on headless servers.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Maxim
> 


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Re: substitute for Skype

[(]

On Mon Aug 1, 2022 at 4:47 PM BST, Gottfried wrote:
> 1 for mumble, 9 for murmur, which belong together, as far as I 
> understand it.
Murmur is a non-cryptographic hash function which has absolutely nothing
to do with Mumble (though it's entirely possible Mumble uses a MurmurHash
somewhere)...

    -- (

Re: substitute for Skype

[Maxim Cournoyer]

Hi Gottfried,

Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> writes:

> Thanks for all answers,
>
> I want to use my laptop and talk to somebody or even exeptionally to
> others (several people) in a room, connected through one
> laptop. (through more laptops - I haven't done it yet, so I don't
> know)
>
> Earlier I used Skype.
>
> Jitsi Meet isn't in guix. But Jami is there.
>
>
> There are 8 packages for Jami, do I need to install all of them?
>
>
> ffmpeg-jami	4.4.2	Audio and video framework	htttps://www.ffmpeg.org/
>
> jami	20220726.1515.da8d1da	Qt Jami client	https://jami.net
>
> jami-gnome	20220726.1515.da8d1da	Qt Jami client	https://jami.net
>
> jami-qt	20220726.1515.da8d1da	Qt Jami client	https://jami.net
>
> libjami	20220726.1515.da8d1da	Jami core library and daemon	https://jami.net/
>
> libring	20220726.1515.da8d1da	Jami core library and daemon	https://jami.net/
>
> node-jsondiffpatch	0.3.11	Diff & Patch for Javascript objects
> https://github.com/benjamine/jsondiffpatch
>
> pjproject-jami	2.11-0.e1f389d	Session Initiation Protocol (SIP)
> stack https://www.pjsip.org

You should 'guix pull'; it was updated yesterday.  Now there's only one
client package, 'jami'.

You can run it via 'guix shell jami -- jami' to try it out, or install
it.

I'd suggest getting to know jami itself before venturing into
jami-service-type.  You can already make calls and add more users
manually to get started.

When you want some permanent channel that people can call and join
automatically, jami-service-type will provide value.

Thanks,

Maxim

Re: substitute for Skype

[Luis Felipe]

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Hi Gottfried,

On Monday, August 1st, 2022 at 15:47, Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> wrote:

> Has somebody got experience with Jami or Mumble?

I've used Jami until recently. As other people already mentioned, installing the "jami" package should be enough.

I only used it to converse with one person at a time, not group [audio|video]chats. When it worked, it was enjoyable. Unfortunately, most of the time it didn't.

I tried it for several months at different times, checking if upgrades would improve the experience, but the experience wasn't good enough to grow a list of contacts that included people from mainstream culture (people used to WhatsApp and proprietary software in general). The few contacts I had (~5) eventually stopped using the application because of its constant malfunctioning. Some contacts left making harsh comments about it.

Most noticeable problems:

• Missing messages
• Sharing images, voice messages and files seldom worked

This was pretty much people on Windows and Android devices and only me on a Guix System. The problems were not limited to communication with me, though, they were also present in android-to-android and windows-to-android communication.

There were a couple of times though were I could stablish audio communication for more than one hour without problems. But those times were exceptions.

That said, please try it out. Maybe things have changed. I hope.

Also, if you'd like to try it out, make sure there are substitutes available. Last time I upgraded my profile (10 days ago) there were no substites for "libjami", I think, and my computer was not powerful enough to build it.

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Re: substitute for Skype

[David Lecompte]

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Le lundi 01 août 2022 à 15:26 +0000, Gottfried a écrit :
> 
> Jitsi Meet isn't in guix. But Jami is there.

Jitsi is for voice / video calls / screen sharing, it requires running
a server on one machine but particpants just need a web browser (major
web browser work).

I use a cheap VPS to run a Jitsi server instance. Jisti is packaged for
Debian, it is easy to install an instance without any customization
(see
https://jitsi.github.io/handbook/docs/devops-guide/devops-guide-quickstart).  There is no maintenance to do besides occasional software
upgrades.

This is what I use with a small group of non-technical people within
small distance (5 people usually, some within 700 km range sometimes)
on a regular basis and we rarely have problems (the most frequent
problem is permission issues to access the microphone/camera).

I have tried it once with 12 people, it was more difficult, but I was
using the cheapest VPS possible.

You can try it using public instances without installing one yourself,
for instance using https://framatalk.org/abc/en/ (I guess you are in
Europe, these are European servers).

Of course, it may depend how busy the server is.

For voice only, for a small group, Mumble is a pretty reliable solution
too (it also needs running a server, I never did but I assume it is at
least as easy as Jitsi).


David.


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Re: substitute for Skype

[Benjamin Slade]

Depending on the exact use case, there are some other possibilities that don't run "natively" on Guix, but are still free software and could be installed from Flatpak or Nix. E.g. the Signal client for desktop and Matrix Element.

Though, actually, I think the Nheko client for Matrix (available as a Guix package) also has voice/video call support though I haven't tried it before.

--Ben

Re: substitute for Skype

[Akib Azmain Turja]

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Benjamin Slade <beoram@gmail.com> writes:

> Depending on the exact use case, there are some other possibilities
> that don't run "natively" on Guix, but are still free software and
> could be installed from Flatpak or Nix. E.g. the Signal client for
> desktop and Matrix Element.
>
> Though, actually, I think the Nheko client for Matrix (available as a Guix package) also has voice/video call support though I haven't tried it before.
>
> --Ben

What about XMPP (Jabber)?  Dino, a XMPP client, supports encrypted video
chat from version 0.3, and it's packaged in Guix.  As XMPP is
decentralized, the users don't need to have an account on your server.

-- 
Akib Azmain Turja

Find me on Mastodon at @akib@hostux.social.

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Re: substitute for Skype

[Maxim Cournoyer]

Hi Luis,

Luis Felipe <luis.felipe.la@protonmail.com> writes:

> Hi Gottfried,
>
> On Monday, August 1st, 2022 at 15:47, Gottfried <gottfried@posteo.de> wrote:
>
>> Has somebody got experience with Jami or Mumble?
>
> I've used Jami until recently. As other people already mentioned, installing the "jami" package should be enough.
>
> I only used it to converse with one person at a time, not group [audio|video]chats. When it worked, it was enjoyable. Unfortunately, most of the time it didn't.
>
> I tried it for several months at different times, checking if upgrades
> would improve the experience, but the experience wasn't good enough to
> grow a list of contacts that included people from mainstream culture
> (people used to WhatsApp and proprietary software in general). The few
> contacts I had (~5) eventually stopped using the application because
> of its constant malfunctioning. Some contacts left making harsh
> comments about it.
>
> Most noticeable problems:
>
> • Missing messages
> • Sharing images, voice messages and files seldom worked

Sadly, I can relate.  Luckily there is some hope.  The new swarm
mechanism for syncing conversations via libgit is maturing and promises
to avoid the loss of messages when delivery can't happen in real time
(such as when the remote participant is offline).  I think the latest
release we have packaged already implements it in 1:1 conversations.

Mobile clients may have other issues (the need to use push notifications
or a gateway server to the distributed network to avoid wasting the tiny
battery in a few hours introduces its own share of complications -- and
bugs).

Thanks for having shared your experience!

Maxim

Re: substitute for Skype

[Csepp]

Akib Azmain Turja <akib@disroot.org> writes:

> [[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]]
> Benjamin Slade <beoram@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Depending on the exact use case, there are some other possibilities
>> that don't run "natively" on Guix, but are still free software and
>> could be installed from Flatpak or Nix. E.g. the Signal client for
>> desktop and Matrix Element.
>>
>> Though, actually, I think the Nheko client for Matrix (available as
>> a Guix package) also has voice/video call support though I haven't
>> tried it before.
>>
>> --Ben
>
> What about XMPP (Jabber)?  Dino, a XMPP client, supports encrypted video
> chat from version 0.3, and it's packaged in Guix.  As XMPP is
> decentralized, the users don't need to have an account on your server.

XMPP and Matrix are both federated, if your guests don't already have
accounts somewhere, they will need to register somewhere.

There is work on making Matrix fully peer to peer, but it's not yet done.

Tox and Jami are fully peer to peer, so you only need a client, no
server needed.  When I last used Tox it kind of sucked if you wanted to
log in from multiple machines, so, keep that in mind if you want
persistent text chat as well.
Matrix solves this issue, you can log in from any number of clients,
even simultaneously.
XMPP... well if you want encryption, it's pretty janky.  OMEMO became
desynced for me with both Dino and Gajim and never recovered, so new
messages could not be decrypted by all participants.  Based on that, I
would recommend against XMPP for persistent chat rooms.
Of course if you only use Dino for video chat and don't care about chat
history, this is less of an issue.

Re: substitute for Skype

[Gary Johnson]

I've used Jitsi Meet at work for many of my pair programming sessions on
and off for the past few years. It's really quite simple to use from
Guix.

Step 1. Install `ungoogled-chromium`.

Step 2. Open https://meet.jit.si in Chromium.

Step 3. Type the name of the video chat room that you want to create in
        the text box on the Jitsi Meet home page and press the "Start
        meeting" button.

Step 4. Grant your browser access to your camera and microphone.

Step 5. Enjoy your call. ;)

Note: On your first visit to the site, you may be prompted to install a
      browser extension for Google Calendar and Office 365 Integration.
      You can simply click the checkbox by "Don't show me this again"
      and close that pop-up. It's completely unnecessary for using Jitsi
      Meet. It's just a call scheduling feature for online calendars.

Happy videoconferencing!
  Gary

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