From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Amirouche Boubekki Subject: Re: Manual (was: fully functional desktop installation) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 16:35:29 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20161229171045.263747a9@riseup.net> <87bmvpb21m.fsf@gnu.org> <20170108041145.6d9a5cbc@riseup.net> <87shotx3eq.fsf@gnu.org> <20180115151819.ez3uyqykip4xp4y4@abyayala> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113acb78357b5a0562d25dd1" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36106) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eb6nP-0002a8-B7 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2018 10:35:36 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eb6nN-0002hV-Li for guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2018 10:35:35 -0500 In-Reply-To: <20180115151819.ez3uyqykip4xp4y4@abyayala> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: =?UTF-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= , Quiliro , guix-devel@gnu.org --001a113acb78357b5a0562d25dd1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does the manual want to avoid the fact that minimal knowledge of Scheme is required maybe we should add a small intro to guile or guix manual something maybe like my book called "a guile mind book" Le 15 janv. 2018 3:20 PM, "ng0" a =C3=A9crit : > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s transcribed 1.7K bytes: > > Hi Quiliro! > > > > Quiliro skribis: > > > > > On Mon, 02 Jan 2017 22:11:01 +0100 > > > ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Court=C3=A8s) wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > >> The desktop example contains all of GNOME, when choosing GNOME, whic= h > > >> provides an email client, Web browser, and lots of other things. > > > > > > I don't find the email client. > > > The web browser will not reproduce videos. > > > > This is a bug that needs to be treated separately. Clearly Nautilus > > should be able to play videos. > > I can confirm this for some file, I just had the opinion Nautilus wasn't > very capable and didn't report it when I first noticed it. > > > > I have no idea how to chat in Gnome. (Of course I will investigate.) > > > > There=E2=80=99s Pidgin, but maybe it=E2=80=99s not really part of GNOME= . > > > > > What you say makes sense. But what users that cannot learn to install > > > need to work on their own matters is very important in order for them > to > > > be able to advocate the free system. Perhaps we do not want to promot= e > > > the use of Flash or Microsoft Office formats. These issues are > > > critical. But they are not against the FSDGs. And the user must notic= e > > > we are able to offer those capabilities. We must always insist in > > > suggesting to use the libre alternatives. In this case, we should not > > > avoid including the ability to read those formats. > > > > I agree, but again, I think GNOME provides everything for these tasks. > > Also, at this point, the target audience of GuixSD is not =E2=80=9Cuser= s that > > cannot learn to install=E2=80=9D=E2=80=94if someone managed to install = GuixSD, surely > > they=E2=80=99ll find out how to install LibreOffice. > > In my opinion we could extend examples in the Manual. > We already expect people to read the Manual, even if it's hard to > digest for newcomers in some passages (different problem). To add > an 'from 0 to full Desktop' walk through or just extension of the existin= g > material with references to the appropriate sections would be good. > > Even if we don't expect people who are not willing to play around, break > parts > and play around with the system, we need clear examples. Even people who > are > experienced want some kind of help instead of high expertise expectation. > > People keep asking me obvious question that should be in the manual. > Sometimes things which could be snippets in an example chapter. > For example (home-directory (string-append "/home/" name)). Super obvious= , > I know. > > > > I have also had problems with Mimetypes. Many files will not open > > > because the Gnome will not identify which program is appropriate. > > > > Sounds like a bug. Could you report all the details to > > bug-guix@gnu.org: how to reproduce, what you expected, and what you got= ? > > > > Thank you! > > > > Ludo=E2=80=99. > > > > > > > > > > -- > ng0 :: https://ea.n0.is > A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588 :: https://ea.n0.is/keys/ > --001a113acb78357b5a0562d25dd1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does the manual want to avoid the fact that minimal knowl= edge of Scheme is required maybe we should add a small intro to guile or gu= ix manual something maybe like my book called "a guile mind book"= =C2=A0

Le=C2= =A015 janv. 2018 3:20 PM, "ng0" <= ng0@n0.is> a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
Ludovic Court=C3=A8s transcribed 1.7K bytes:
> Hi Quiliro!
>
> Quiliro <quiliro@riseup.net> skribis:
>
> > On Mon, 02 Jan 2017 22:11:01 +0100
> > ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic Court= =C3=A8s) wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> The desktop example contains all of GNOME, when choosing GNOM= E, which
> >> provides an email client, Web browser, and lots of other thin= gs.
> >
> > I don't find the email client.
> > The web browser will not reproduce videos.
>
> This is a bug that needs to be treated separately.=C2=A0 Clearly Nauti= lus
> should be able to play videos.

I can confirm this for some file, I just had the opinion Nautilus wasn'= t
very capable and didn't report it when I first noticed it.

> > I have no idea how to chat in Gnome. (Of course I will investigat= e.)
>
> There=E2=80=99s Pidgin, but maybe it=E2=80=99s not really part of GNOM= E.
>
> > What you say makes sense. But what users that cannot learn to ins= tall
> > need to work on their own matters is very important in order for = them to
> > be able to advocate the free system. Perhaps we do not want to pr= omote
> > the use of Flash or Microsoft Office formats. These issues are > > critical. But they are not against the FSDGs. And the user must n= otice
> > we are able to offer those capabilities. We must always insist in=
> > suggesting to use the libre alternatives. In this case, we should= not
> > avoid including the ability to read those formats.
>
> I agree, but again, I think GNOME provides everything for these tasks.=
> Also, at this point, the target audience of GuixSD is not =E2=80=9Cuse= rs that
> cannot learn to install=E2=80=9D=E2=80=94if someone managed to install= GuixSD, surely
> they=E2=80=99ll find out how to install LibreOffice.

In my opinion we could extend examples in the Manual.
We already expect people to read the Manual, even if it's hard to
digest for newcomers in some passages (different problem). To add
an 'from 0 to full Desktop' walk through or just extension of the e= xisting
material with references to the appropriate sections would be good.

Even if we don't expect people who are not willing to play around, brea= k parts
and play around with the system, we need clear examples. Even people who ar= e
experienced want some kind of help instead of high expertise expectation.
People keep asking me obvious question that should be in the manual.
Sometimes things which could be snippets in an example chapter.
For example (home-directory (string-append "/home/" name)). Super= obvious,
I know.

> > I have also had problems with Mimetypes. Many files will not open=
> > because the Gnome will not identify which program is appropriate.=
>
> Sounds like a bug.=C2=A0 Could you report all the details to
> bug-guix@gnu.org: how to repro= duce, what you expected, and what you got?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Ludo=E2=80=99.
>
>
>
>

--
ng0 :: ht= tps://ea.n0.is
A88C8ADD129828D7EAC02E52E22F9BBFEE348588 :: https://ea.n0.is/keys/
--001a113acb78357b5a0562d25dd1--