From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e224::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms13.migadu.com with LMTPS id APZBGAaEHWffPQAA62LTzQ:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2024 00:06:30 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e224::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1.migadu.com with LMTPS id APZBGAaEHWffPQAA62LTzQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2024 02:06:30 +0200 X-Envelope-To: larch@yhetil.org Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.s=20230601 header.b=3C3NGtIQ; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1729987590; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=QtU4PpAgEEjR/eS+7FHkW/48ElnNSegBqa3+DCr5f+SfYQJXoGEOxbYvurCx7twMbRv2TX nsqJh4eP18GY7B0ARnSrq/uN21bWbkX3FKzXfovpG1Y6yPBFYFrfZeXweqCrjAxsK0xIUQ 3vujDM9p9WqqsdK8BHUqFnooq+DZnsGJrL4lIzT6u6YoRUsTCnxJohdH9mOUhYgsFLhhSC FBKyoft945NYHB+qxgGzBh7N/4Nvs9VWsTCa0U82kKErW0fVjZJWBVoX127qBtNVovqqmP 51en8JmJa9E5338Dw0T1VY+J5QFBbUKpNJ8V2AieSjzRJFCRKUNbkiqN3IIRdg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com header.s=20230601 header.b=3C3NGtIQ; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1729987590; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=hq/uja41eU3fhFHilusuHwKiW10ETZN+i2YZkpv6g84=; b=SDmk/i53hBwzT2YuM23ZHHJGBUUTxWnH54naKpyE4Mo162mYxLA8xYVcp87AoVL0gYwHBr mRaSiUJZE3hcaUiTlSZEvMbQVa8SfHbOsdm8v4Pi4z3DGKUets68Bq7qRc2NOqqFWbIf5/ ZKPAivTcn+nUakQtLR6Atcx+QU64YyRithvUrGq4Bh2yeug3/8ppTreyYBp/jYYydbRgkN hiQwvSg2Uj5XMMma+WLotysN67l9lmvW46l27QJa6deMAHvBu3VSzMwZMoGILggM1wu4LJ sM9EdqZD9h8+lGejyhymy+GpFJ8F/2Vb0y/zWR1Fq/HQYBXO3uRwh7uozqhnaw== Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8F4D8C1AB for ; Sun, 27 Oct 2024 02:06:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t4qn4-0002km-Qy; Sat, 26 Oct 2024 20:05:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t4qn1-0002kX-La for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2024 20:05:51 -0400 Received: from mail-vk1-xa2e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::a2e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1t4qmz-0004wt-Pc for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2024 20:05:51 -0400 Received: by mail-vk1-xa2e.google.com with SMTP id 71dfb90a1353d-50d2e71de18so939483e0c.1 for ; Sat, 26 Oct 2024 17:05:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1729987547; x=1730592347; darn=gnu.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hq/uja41eU3fhFHilusuHwKiW10ETZN+i2YZkpv6g84=; b=3C3NGtIQYGxTN8e9kdhGI9nT72CawIxL1MiO0EmDGM3VYnkfZ2ioqzeYzSHscCujKa O1Uf6cS1yHgDhmA0NkF16HxM+Grk1dsyUnrbkLh9JG1v1B7NUb9VD5V1RFIdymigWmrA g+avuUDUwa05XZLGQpF7lTLcg45vi5I79zPfgBOaBynis+EB80MRMUyhc6BiF6RVRDew zOhmCXX/4Upnxfp+S9FeQtg/8uwGkiGTLfmF17UVUneadnyWF92fvxpupTn9s9o7cBR3 fKGVY2L43ZO6rntwR5hhlp3GUC73M3fWnFWms7wc/RzD6OjcbC0qDVVEXl/ofm7+ss6x 1Zvg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1729987547; x=1730592347; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=hq/uja41eU3fhFHilusuHwKiW10ETZN+i2YZkpv6g84=; b=VTAqeFSy9u5t2YUKpv2gYQ+n4MnQb/FnhSLUsTAbHI/lS76DgF39B7GXOI9+GnpsTT WtMxC42ObJG/uzg+m+gYlyaCPlYmYLyMGQp7M5YGWi6KurSUd5ai+rTDtJY6OtA/MO7b r2pSRC4LNcSBso4FBRhriceODb8LopMsU/rRPLYoc3S6mhxaI2oIASKSVuyhQncr8y9o /91LOg2LZzVoOq25mygowWkikgPyz9/CEfiw7uy9OoZNpvdpgRABcvKylhJI7d5xc08s eREaf3XU/znc+rYIfHnNsv8j+Nge6Y0Rp2D7Qs/0ulxE0PvY7GHK989yNiCgUASpaLmx kZNw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzsutHn2gRuNNFFtfIMe607EvrehB9m+yJwY7NBHFdazOH5IjhA mr429MXax2bOly9lqTwQ+vAyV7y1X/S0krD3KcV34430baBFuq3IXFmHLVniAfExzzH8d+i4TNU OgteCKwjFCVpA7XEC/QPxQFTRj8QCMw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEVpwlQZyotph7ZD3JzluqfkuGNCUc/3weNcCMME/cB3X06v5WTq0tN0lnQvC1SF5Yxa/GGII+7i0ZophYq1HA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:3a0b:b0:4a4:7a00:d5b4 with SMTP id ada2fe7eead31-4a8cfd30768mr2375800137.18.1729987547405; Sat, 26 Oct 2024 17:05:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Andy Tai Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2024 17:05:11 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Guix (and Guile's) promise, and how to (hopefully) get there To: guix-devel@gnu.org, Juliana Sims Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::a2e; envelope-from=lichengtai@gmail.com; helo=mail-vk1-xa2e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.171, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.17 X-Spam-Score: -1.17 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B8F4D8C1AB X-Migadu-Scanner: mx12.migadu.com X-TUID: zIGuEWb7v4QR With due respect, I disagree with that. Guix recent years has seen growing interests and contributions, so many patches that the they are not reviewed or processed in a timely manner. This is with affiliation with GNU. I contributed to Guix because it is GNU. In fact I just contact the FSF about contribution to Guix with small donations periodically. I am in the US and financially contribution to the FSF is tax deductible and the FSF has a better track record of efficient use of contributions than most other non profits (as regulated by the US Government Internal Revenue Service). Financially many free software nonproifts are having issues (per recent article in lwn.net) and the FSF is in better shape than these (with questions on their abilities to raise income and expenses) in that article. So it is not clear where the FSF lost its financial capital. So my observation is inconsistent with what Juliana wrote in this part. On Sat, Oct 26, 2024 Juliana Sims wrote: > > ...Guix should break with GNU and the FSF. Moreso the FSF, but the two > are irrevocably intertwined in the public conscious -- which is the > primary reason Guix needs to break away. To avoid relitigating what has > been litigated more than sufficiently already, the FSF made a bad > political move that has destroyed its social capital and, as a > side-effect, its financial capital as well. Even if it can help us with > funding, it shouldn't. > > I think so. As I noted above, if we break with GNU, I am highly > confident we will see an uptick in new contributors, at least some of > whom can help there.