From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Catonano Subject: Re: my latest blog post Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2018 10:07:26 +0200 Message-ID: References: <87in6ra84f.fsf@g1.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b93a02056e451f66" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43976) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fRvNp-0000mi-R8 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2018 04:07:31 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fRvNo-00038M-FU for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2018 04:07:29 -0400 Received: from mail-yw0-x22e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22e]:43077) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fRvNo-00038H-8R for guix-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jun 2018 04:07:28 -0400 Received: by mail-yw0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id r19-v6so5409621ywc.10 for ; Sun, 10 Jun 2018 01:07:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87in6ra84f.fsf@g1.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: myglc2 Cc: guix-devel --000000000000b93a02056e451f66 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" 2018-06-10 0:49 GMT+02:00 : > On 06/07/2018 at 17:25 Catonano writes: > > > I just published my latest blog post > > > > In this post I discuss Guix > > > > And I discuss Guile too > > > > I understand that the language is strong and I expect someone to be upset > > > > But I feel this is due > > > > Happy reading > > > > http://catonano.v22018025836661967.nicesrv.de/the-gnu-community.html > > Hi Catonano, > > Thank you for taking the time to contribute your thoughts. I am sorry to > see you getting so beat up by the responses. Unfortunately the > nit-picking of criticisms and the "we are busy, why don't you dig in and > fix it" responses occur too often on the Guix lists. > > Such responses are fundamentally unhelpful: A defensive response of > counter-criticism that spirals out of control buries the original input > and alienates potential new contributors. I agree with you that the > suggestion that you dig in and fix something you are struggling with is > a fundamentally unfriendly response. > > I appreciate the effort you made to learn Guix and the risk you took to > report on the problems you experienced. I am interested in getting to > the root causes of your frustration. I re-read your post and > emails. Would it be fair to say ... > > 1) The monad/daemon/store is presented as central to Guix and is very > difficult to understand. If a Guix user really needs to understand it, > it needs to be explained better. > > 2) Sending Guix users upstream for Guile support is not working. > > If these are correct, the reality is that only a few people on the > planet are in a position to address these issues. The rest of us have to > hope that they can see why it is important to stop coding long enough to > do so, perhaps in collaboration with a confused user or two ;-) > > - George > Thank you George, I appreciate this I alredy had 2 people writing to me _in private_ acknowledging my efforts I invited them to "come out" but they didn't So much for Guile friendliness People are scared to speak their minds Now, don't worry I won't revelate who you are I just want to record the sorry state of this community --000000000000b93a02056e451f66 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2018-06-10 0:49 GMT+02:00 <myglc2@gmail.com>:
On 06/07/20= 18 at 17:25 Catonano writes:

> I just published my latest blog post
>
> In this post I discuss Guix
>
> And I discuss Guile too
>
> I understand that the language is strong and I expect someone to be up= set
>
> But I feel this is due
>
> Happy reading
>
> http://catonano.v22018= 025836661967.nicesrv.de/the-gnu-community.html

Hi Catonano,

Thank you for taking the time to contribute your thoughts. I am sorry to see you getting so beat up by the responses.=C2=A0 Unfortunately the
nit-picking of criticisms and the "we are busy, why don't you dig = in and
fix it" responses occur too often on the Guix lists.

Such responses are fundamentally unhelpful: A defensive response of
counter-criticism that spirals out of control buries the original input
and alienates potential new contributors. I agree with you that the
suggestion that you dig in and fix something you are struggling with is
a fundamentally unfriendly response.

I appreciate the effort you made to learn Guix and the risk you took to
report on the problems you experienced. I am interested in getting to
the root causes of your frustration. I re-read your post and
emails. Would it be fair to say ...

1) The monad/daemon/store is presented as central to Guix and is very
difficult to understand. If a Guix user really needs to understand it,
it needs to be explained better.

2) Sending Guix users upstream for Guile support is not working.

If these are correct, the reality is that only a few people on the
planet are in a position to address these issues. The rest of us have to hope that they can see why it is important to stop coding long enough to do so, perhaps in collaboration with a confused user or two ;-)

- George

Thank you George, I= appreciate this

I alredy had 2 peo= ple writing to me _in private_ acknowledging my efforts

I invited them to "come out" but they didn&#= 39;t

So much for Guile friendliness=

People are scared to speak their m= inds

Now, don't worry I won'= ;t revelate who you are

I just want= to record the sorry state of this community
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