From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: swedebugia Subject: Re: 05/15: gnu: wesnoth: Rename package to the-battle-for-wesnoth. Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2019 14:20:20 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20190326131842.7363.84034@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20190326131844.C73EC209E3@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <87imw4fuee.fsf@gnu.org> <87r2aso7zh.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----WQ3F4TW089O4WVM6T9ET13W0N4XAX5" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50990) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h98To-0000uo-2J for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 09:20:33 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1h98Tm-0002tB-M6 for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 27 Mar 2019 09:20:32 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87r2aso7zh.fsf@ambrevar.xyz> List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: guix-devel@gnu.org, Pierre Neidhardt , =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ludovic_Court=E8s?= ------WQ3F4TW089O4WVM6T9ET13W0N4XAX5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pierre Neidhardt skrev: (27 mars 2019 12:46:26 CET) >Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > >> Apologies if I missed a previous discussion on this topic, but=E2=80=A6= I=E2=80=99m >> skeptical about the renames=2E I assume that the original names were >> those commonly used in distributions, which in itself may be a good >> reason to keep them=2E > >Names may vary a lot across distributions=2E Especially when it comes to >games, since they tend to have more exotic titles=2E > >If the majority of distributions decides on a poor name, we don't have >to repeat the same mistake ;) > >> Those names are also used upstream in some cases: the tarball for >> wesnoth is called =E2=80=9Cwestnoth*=2Etar=2Egz=E2=80=9D, for example, = and the GitHub >> project of L=E2=80=99Abbaye des morts is =E2=80=9Cabbayedesmorts=E2=80= =9D (no =E2=80=98l=E2=80=99)=2E Like our >> naming guidelines say (info "(guix) Package Naming"), we should try >to >> stick to the upstream name=2E >> >> Thoughts? > >I think it's important to ask "why should we name a package this way=2E" >What's the rationale behind a package name? > >We are facing the users, not package maintainers=2E Users are not >supposed to know about: > >- domain names >- tarball names >- github names > >Those are details, in my understanding, reserved to developers and >packagers=2E >More often than not, those shortened names are used because of >technical >limitations (e=2Eg=2E character length)=2E We don't have to forward thos= e >limitations on ourselves=2E > >I think it makes sense that we expose to the users names that speaks to >them, i=2Ee=2E the "official project full name"=2E > >Finally, as I mentioned above with the completion systems that we have, >we've got nothing to lose in having long names=2E > >My two cents :) > >--=20 >Pierre Neidhardt >https://ambrevar=2Exyz/ I agree with Pierre=2E =F0=9F=98=83 Good useability is important and cryptic acronyms are not something to exp= ose to the user if possible to avoid IMO=2E=20 Maybe this is where we need to discuss what our target audience is? Nerds = only? Random Joe who is new to GNU systems but dead tired of the proprietary sys= tems he was taught in school who heard og Guix through a good friend who he= lps him getting started?=20 Tangent to this is the focus on an installer=2E Why bother with an instal= ler if we only target nerds and educated computer professionals? Anyone else who have opinions on the matter of acronyms in names where the= y can be avoided? --=20 Sent from my k-9 mail for Android=2E ------WQ3F4TW089O4WVM6T9ET13W0N4XAX5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pierre Neidhardt <ma= il@ambrevar=2Exyz> skrev: (27 mars 2019 12:46:26 CET)
Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@gnu=2Eorg> writes:<=
br>
Apologies if I miss=
ed a previous discussion on this topic, but=E2=80=A6 I=E2=80=99m
skeptic=
al about the renames=2E  I assume that the original names were
those com=
monly used in distributions, which in itself may be a good
reason to kee=
p them=2E

Names may vary a lot across distributions=2E =
 Especially when it comes to
games, since they tend to have more exotic =
titles=2E

If the majority of distributions decides on a poor name, w=
e don't have
to repeat the same mistake ;)

 Those names are also used upstream in some case=
s: the tarball for
 wesnoth is called =E2=80=9Cwestnoth*=2Etar=2Egz=E2=
=80=9D, for example, and the GitHub
 project of L=E2=80=99Abbaye des mor=
ts is =E2=80=9Cabbayedesmorts=E2=80=9D (no =E2=80=98l=E2=80=99)=2E  Like ou=
r
 naming guidelines say (info "(guix) Package Naming"), we should try t=
o
 stick to the upstream name=2E

 Thoughts?

I=
 think it's important to ask "why should we name a package this way=2E"
=
What's the rationale behind a package name?

We are facing the users,=
 not package maintainers=2E  Users are not
supposed to know about:
- domain names
- tarball names
- github names

Those are deta=
ils, in my understanding, reserved to developers and
packagers=2E
Mor=
e often than not, those shortened names are used because of technical
li=
mitations (e=2Eg=2E character length)=2E  We don't have to forward thoselimitations on ourselves=2E

I think it makes sense that we expose t=
o the users names that speaks to
them, i=2Ee=2E the "official project fu=
ll name"=2E

Finally, as I mentioned above with the completion system=
s that we have,
we've got nothing to lose in having long names=2E
My two cents :)

I agree with= Pierre=2E =F0=9F=98=83

Good useability is important and cryptic acr= onyms are not something to expose to the user if possible to avoid IMO=2E <= br>
Maybe this is where we need to discuss what our target audience is? = Nerds only?
Random Joe who is new to GNU systems but dead tired of the p= roprietary systems he was taught in school who heard og Guix through a good= friend who helps him getting started?

Tangent to this is the focus= on an installer=2E Why bother with an installer if we only target nerds a= nd educated computer professionals?

Anyone else who have opinions on= the matter of acronyms in names where they can be avoided?

--
S= ent from my k-9 mail for Android=2E
------WQ3F4TW089O4WVM6T9ET13W0N4XAX5--