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s=mail; t=1695713630; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=rZ3ph+ivb3l/NhcXlFNH1EOcR32d4o7V/szlOjLMMoo=; b=Wahn580MkgHcHravL3Pv54XBSeKw9oyEeJfL01zwWV7vvmeS4VnZ/leB0xZv39ngj/vaB+ NOanBVIUWDCMMgeDnc2fiNB0nun14KF5VyadN2YRZvcmWxRUQraSg8ctOxkJs8/5pc+geq sFpgXa3wNqqsVdfT4JuGQtCEGTuJIMw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:33:50 +0200 From: indieterminacy To: Simon Tournier Cc: MSavoritias , paul , Janneke Nieuwenhuizen , Nathan Dehnel , atai@atai.org, guix-devel@gnu.org Subject: Re: The Giraffe; the Pelican et al (was Re: The e(macs)lephant in the room and the Guix Bang) In-Reply-To: <86zg1aj8ib.fsf@gmail.com> References: <875y41gx14.fsf@gnu.org> <2a710ca0-466b-0d6e-9768-60b7904178cc@autistici.org> <331eef527aca4c69dc8ffde867cedd6e@libre.brussels> <7778a76a-d9cb-5970-8b28-4d5d478a11dc@fannys.me> <86zg1aj8ib.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d6b59d0a8ac708e4d70b81080cd8039@libre.brussels> X-Sender: indieterminacy@libre.brussels Organization: Icebreaker Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=144.76.234.112; envelope-from=indieterminacy@libre.brussels; helo=libre.brussels X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Spam-Score: -5.12 X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.12 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Queue-Id: D3D5443F38 X-TUID: xRplfhSh7AZr On 25-09-2023 22:35, Simon Tournier wrote: > Hi, > > On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 at 14:13, MSavoritias wrote: > >> So saying that the people who don't know guile or guix need to first >> contribute docs is pretty ridiculous. > > Why? Could you explain more why it appears to you “ridiculous”? > My frustration seems to be that a lot of negative energy has been directed towards Emacs. It has almost been straying towards anti elitist type discourse (that one is observing more increasingly in politics) - *rather* than doOcracy style discourse that there is a problem and people are capable of autonomously resolving these things. Emacs has not done something wrong here - it has merely had people who have had the capacity for exploration and reaching certain goals and insights then documenting their techniques within the Guix documentation. It seems strange that people havent sooner expressed the concept of: 'well, I have this setup in /this/ editor, Ill put it up. Anybody else want to contribute and fill out gaps X Y and Z?' It is worth noting that there has been a thread fork, starting this this subject title which is behaving more maturely and proactively: RFC: add more setups to Guix docs Similarly, there have been more sounds regarding Vim which are more proactive and constructive. If people want a plurality of editors represented in the documentation they should be proactive about it, rather than lamenting and using divisive rhetoric. > Cheers, > simon -- Jonathan McHugh indieterminacy@libre.brussels