New POWER9 machines for the Guix build farm?

New POWER9 machines for the Guix build farm?

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1180 bytes --]

Fellow Guix,

The Guix sysadmins are considering buying shiny hardware for the 
ci.guix.gnu.org build farm, and it would be awesome if that 
included our first POWER9 machine(s)!

However, few (if any) Guixers have any hands-on experience with 
this architecture, let alone buying and installing whole systems. 
Some remember a bad experience with a prominent vendor, and it 
would appear that they're not alone[0].

There's also some concern that getting these machines up and 
running will take significant effort.

So please, share your expertise and experience in this area! 
Ideally, we need someone to volunteer to (help) set up any new 
POWER9 boxes and later take care of them when needed.  It would 
certainly help justify the multi-thousand-euro bill.

Kind regards,

T G-R

PS: For the shorter term, I've applied for an 8-core POWER9 LE 
instance (with 16 GiB of RAM) for Guix at OSUOSL[1].  Assuming 
that it's accepted, it should be available within a week.

[0]: 
https://drewdevault.com/2019/09/23/RaptorCS-Blackbird-a-horror-story.html, 
but read 
https://drewdevault.com/2019/10/10/RaptorCS-redemption.html as 
well :-)
[1]: https://osuosl.org/services/powerdev/

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 832 bytes --]

Re: New POWER9 machines for the Guix build farm?

[Brett Gilio]

Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias.gr> writes:

> Fellow Guix,
>
> The Guix sysadmins are considering buying shiny hardware for the
> ci.guix.gnu.org build farm, and it would be awesome if that included
> our first POWER9 machine(s)!

I was curious the other day looking at multiarch compilation using the
qemu-binfmt service, is there support for POWER PC?

Anyways, I would love to see support for POWER9 come to Guix. I have
limited experience with this architecture, but I will keep lurking in
this thread.

Good luck!

-- 
Brett M. Gilio
https://git.sr.ht/~brettgilio/

Re: New POWER9 machines for the Guix build farm?

[Jonathan Brielmaier]

On 28.11.19 01:50, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice wrote:
> Fellow Guix,
>
> The Guix sysadmins are considering buying shiny hardware for the
> ci.guix.gnu.org build farm, and it would be awesome if that included our
> first POWER9 machine(s)!

This would be very neat.

> So please, share your expertise and experience in this area! Ideally, we
> need someone to volunteer to (help) set up any new POWER9 boxes and
> later take care of them when needed.  It would certainly help justify
> the multi-thousand-euro bill.

I own now a RaptorCS Blackbird[0] with an 8 core CPU and 32GiB RAM for
half a year. I use it as my daily desktop driver. It runs openSUSE
Tumblweed[1].

Setup was quite easy if you only want to use it as server without an
GPU. You only need a long enough (ca 15cm) 4mm hex key to screw the fan
on to the CPU. I could borrow mine.

The rest of the installation and setup process wasn't that different
from installing a x86 server. The nice thing is the openBMC chip, so
remote management is quite nice :)

All in all the biggest pain point for me, was getting the machine
through the customs. But I heard from people in the EU who had a pretty
smooth experience with that.

I offer my help in the whole process (ordering, customs, setup,
installation, maintenance).

~Jonathan

P.S: It might be worth to ask RaptorCS and IBM, if they could give us
some discounts.

[0] https://raptorcs.com/content/BK1B02/intro.html
[1] https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/tumbleweed

Re: New POWER9 machines for the Guix build farm?

[Leo Famulari]

On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 11:57:19AM +0100, Jonathan Brielmaier wrote:
> I own now a RaptorCS Blackbird[0] with an 8 core CPU and 32GiB RAM for
> half a year. I use it as my daily desktop driver. It runs openSUSE
> Tumblweed[1].
> 
> Setup was quite easy if you only want to use it as server without an
> GPU. You only need a long enough (ca 15cm) 4mm hex key to screw the fan
> on to the CPU. I could borrow mine.
> 
> The rest of the installation and setup process wasn't that different
> from installing a x86 server. The nice thing is the openBMC chip, so
> remote management is quite nice :)
> 
> All in all the biggest pain point for me, was getting the machine
> through the customs. But I heard from people in the EU who had a pretty
> smooth experience with that.
> 
> I offer my help in the whole process (ordering, customs, setup,
> installation, maintenance).

It's good to hear this kind of positive experience about these new
machines!

Re: New POWER9 machines for the Guix build farm?

[dftxbs3e]

Hello,

I'm really happy to hear this! I also do own a POWER9 machine.

I have a Talos II with 2x 8 SMT4 cores POWER9 DD2.2 CPUs (64 threads), 
64GB of RAM and an AMD WX7100 GPU (amdgpu libre driver).

I run Fedora on it since more than a year now, it's been my main 
workstation without any major issue.

I'm happy to provide assistance, I encourage GNU Guix developers to join 
#talos-workstation on Freenode's IRC, we have a friendly active 
community that is always happy to help on POWER9 matters.

dftxbs3e

On 11/28/19 1:50 AM, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice wrote:
> Fellow Guix,
>
> The Guix sysadmins are considering buying shiny hardware for the 
> ci.guix.gnu.org build farm, and it would be awesome if that included 
> our first POWER9 machine(s)!
>
> However, few (if any) Guixers have any hands-on experience with this 
> architecture, let alone buying and installing whole systems. Some 
> remember a bad experience with a prominent vendor, and it would appear 
> that they're not alone[0].
>
> There's also some concern that getting these machines up and running 
> will take significant effort.
>
> So please, share your expertise and experience in this area! Ideally, 
> we need someone to volunteer to (help) set up any new POWER9 boxes and 
> later take care of them when needed.  It would certainly help justify 
> the multi-thousand-euro bill.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> T G-R
>
> PS: For the shorter term, I've applied for an 8-core POWER9 LE 
> instance (with 16 GiB of RAM) for Guix at OSUOSL[1].  Assuming that 
> it's accepted, it should be available within a week.
>
> [0]: 
> https://drewdevault.com/2019/09/23/RaptorCS-Blackbird-a-horror-story.html, 
> but read https://drewdevault.com/2019/10/10/RaptorCS-redemption.html 
> as well :-)
> [1]: https://osuosl.org/services/powerdev/

Re: New POWER9 machines for the Guix build farm?

[Marco van Hulten]

Hello—

On 29 Nov 09:25 dftxbs3e wrote:
> I'm really happy to hear this! I also do own a POWER9 machine.
> 
> I have a Talos II with 2x 8 SMT4 cores POWER9 DD2.2 CPUs (64 threads), 
> 64GB of RAM and an AMD WX7100 GPU (amdgpu libre driver).
> 
> I run Fedora on it since more than a year now, it's been my main 
> workstation without any major issue.

It's great to hear of such an experience!  I have an amd64 server at
home that makes quite a bit of noise and, standing next to the server,
an amd64 workstation that makes even more noise, both of which are over
10 years old.  I am considering replacing both systems for a single
Talos II.

According to the mainboard specifications [1], Ethernet is driven by a
proprietary chip (Broadcom BCM5719).  Is there libre firmware that is
shown to work reliably?

I guess it should be because it is FSF-certified to Respect Your
Freedom, but could someone confirm this specifically for the network
interface?

[1]: https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Talos_II

> I'm happy to provide assistance, I encourage GNU Guix developers to join 
> #talos-workstation on Freenode's IRC, we have a friendly active 
> community that is always happy to help on POWER9 matters.

Fantastic to see this work out!


The other free modern architecture, RISC-V, is that like a sort of
competitor of POWER9?  Or is it more like Talos II being the obvious
choice for a server (and workstation) because it is available now/more
established?

—Marco

Re: New POWER9 machines for the Guix build farm?

[dftxbs3e]

Hello,

There is libre firmware being worked on, latest news say that it does 
work but some features are not implemented. I have not tested that 
firmware however.

There is a contest organized by RaptorCS to liberate the firmware: 
https://www.raptorcs.com/TALOSII/nic_fw_contest.php

And here's the ongoing work:

https://github.com/meklort/bcm5719-fw

https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/BCM5719

An interesting thing to note is that 10Gbit network cards from the same 
vendor (Broadcom) are implemented fully with hardware ASICs and do not 
require firmware at all. So that's a work around to the problem. source: 
developer of the libre firmware.

dftxbs3e


On 11/29/19 1:50 PM, Marco van Hulten wrote:
> Hello—
>
> On 29 Nov 09:25 dftxbs3e wrote:
>> I'm really happy to hear this! I also do own a POWER9 machine.
>>
>> I have a Talos II with 2x 8 SMT4 cores POWER9 DD2.2 CPUs (64 threads),
>> 64GB of RAM and an AMD WX7100 GPU (amdgpu libre driver).
>>
>> I run Fedora on it since more than a year now, it's been my main
>> workstation without any major issue.
> It's great to hear of such an experience!  I have an amd64 server at
> home that makes quite a bit of noise and, standing next to the server,
> an amd64 workstation that makes even more noise, both of which are over
> 10 years old.  I am considering replacing both systems for a single
> Talos II.
>
> According to the mainboard specifications [1], Ethernet is driven by a
> proprietary chip (Broadcom BCM5719).  Is there libre firmware that is
> shown to work reliably?
>
> I guess it should be because it is FSF-certified to Respect Your
> Freedom, but could someone confirm this specifically for the network
> interface?
>
> [1]: https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/Talos_II
>
>> I'm happy to provide assistance, I encourage GNU Guix developers to join
>> #talos-workstation on Freenode's IRC, we have a friendly active
>> community that is always happy to help on POWER9 matters.
> Fantastic to see this work out!
>
>
> The other free modern architecture, RISC-V, is that like a sort of
> competitor of POWER9?  Or is it more like Talos II being the obvious
> choice for a server (and workstation) because it is available now/more
> established?
>
> —Marco

Re: New POWER9 machines for the Guix build farm?

[Chris Marusich]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1656 bytes --]

Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias.gr> writes:

> Fellow Guix,
>
> The Guix sysadmins are considering buying shiny hardware for the
> ci.guix.gnu.org build farm, and it would be awesome if that included
> our first POWER9 machine(s)!
>
> However, few (if any) Guixers have any hands-on experience with this
> architecture, let alone buying and installing whole systems. Some
> remember a bad experience with a prominent vendor, and it would appear
> that they're not alone[0].
>
> There's also some concern that getting these machines up and running
> will take significant effort.
>
> So please, share your expertise and experience in this area! Ideally,
> we need someone to volunteer to (help) set up any new POWER9 boxes and
> later take care of them when needed.  It would certainly help justify
> the multi-thousand-euro bill.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> T G-R
>
> PS: For the shorter term, I've applied for an 8-core POWER9 LE
> instance (with 16 GiB of RAM) for Guix at OSUOSL[1].  Assuming that
> it's accepted, it should be available within a week.
>
> [0]:
> https://drewdevault.com/2019/09/23/RaptorCS-Blackbird-a-horror-story.html,
> but read https://drewdevault.com/2019/10/10/RaptorCS-redemption.html
> as well :-)
> [1]: https://osuosl.org/services/powerdev/

I think it's a great idea.  To test the waters, someone could try using
one of these free VMs and see how Guix System does on them:

https://openpowerfoundation.org/minicloud-free-openpower-cloud/

First, bootstrap binaries have to be built for the hardware, anyway,
right?  Maybe someone can do that work on one of those free VMs?

-- 
Chris

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 832 bytes --]

Re: New POWER9 machines for the Guix build farm?

[dftxbs3e]

On 12/9/19 1:19 AM, Chris Marusich wrote:
> Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@tobias.gr> writes:
>
>> Fellow Guix,
>>
>> The Guix sysadmins are considering buying shiny hardware for the
>> ci.guix.gnu.org build farm, and it would be awesome if that included
>> our first POWER9 machine(s)!
>>
>> However, few (if any) Guixers have any hands-on experience with this
>> architecture, let alone buying and installing whole systems. Some
>> remember a bad experience with a prominent vendor, and it would appear
>> that they're not alone[0].
>>
>> There's also some concern that getting these machines up and running
>> will take significant effort.
>>
>> So please, share your expertise and experience in this area! Ideally,
>> we need someone to volunteer to (help) set up any new POWER9 boxes and
>> later take care of them when needed.  It would certainly help justify
>> the multi-thousand-euro bill.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> T G-R
>>
>> PS: For the shorter term, I've applied for an 8-core POWER9 LE
>> instance (with 16 GiB of RAM) for Guix at OSUOSL[1].  Assuming that
>> it's accepted, it should be available within a week.
>>
>> [0]:
>> https://drewdevault.com/2019/09/23/RaptorCS-Blackbird-a-horror-story.html,
>> but read https://drewdevault.com/2019/10/10/RaptorCS-redemption.html
>> as well :-)
>> [1]: https://osuosl.org/services/powerdev/
> I think it's a great idea.  To test the waters, someone could try using
> one of these free VMs and see how Guix System does on them:
>
> https://openpowerfoundation.org/minicloud-free-openpower-cloud/
>
> First, bootstrap binaries have to be built for the hardware, anyway,
> right?  Maybe someone can do that work on one of those free VMs?
>
That work is already done!

See: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=38459

Current issue is gcc-cross-boot0 not building.

See build log at: https://gitlab.com/lle-bout/guix/-/jobs/372934160

Fwd: GNU Guix POWER9 OpenStack application (was: New POWER9 machines for the Guix build farm?)

[Tobias Geerinckx-Rice]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 972 bytes --]

Tobias Geerinckx-rice 写道：
> PS: For the shorter term, I've applied for an 8-core POWER9 LE 
> instance (with
> 16 GiB of RAM) for Guix at OSUOSL[1]. Assuming that it's 
> accepted, it should
> be available within a week. 

Lance Albertson via RT 写道：
> On Thu Dec 12 17:21:37 2019, Tobias Geerinckx-Rice wrote:
>> Hullo,
>> 
>> Back in November I submitted a request[0] for a POWER9 
>> OpenStack instance for
>> the GNU Guix project.
>> 
>> I landed on the ‘form_submitted’ page, but don't think I ever 
>> received a
>> confirmation e-mail.
>> 
>> Before I submit another form request: is there any chance my 
>> application
>> somehow fell between the cracks?
>> 
>> Thanks in advance,
>> 
>> T G-R
>> 
>> [0]: https://osuosl.org/services/powerdev/request_hosting/
>
> Grr, I see it but it didn't get processed on our end. I'll 
> manually import it
> and close this ticket. Sorry it was missed!

Kind regards,

T G-R

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 832 bytes --]