From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Jesse Gibbons Subject: Re: (Really) Free Software future Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 12:42:12 -0600 Message-ID: <91a1375ff605e119f39def67e040bfe1c17abb29.camel@gmail.com> References: <20191009065352.GU8197@protected.rcdrun.com> <1c9dc59c-0594-6921-73e8-b173e558b5c3@vapaa.xyz> <20191010023714.GK20430@protected.rcdrun.com> <6343757.2cZvDvYTfs@pc-713> <20191010061705.GH27628@protected.rcdrun.com> <20191010070606.GW27628@protected.rcdrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59843) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iK5IT-000515-NW for Guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 14:42:22 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iK5IS-0004wx-EM for Guix-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 14 Oct 2019 14:42:21 -0400 In-Reply-To: List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+gcggd-guix-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" To: svante.signell@gmail.com, psmith@gnu.org Cc: Guix-devel , gnu-system-discuss@gnu.org On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 18:52 +0200, Svante Signell wrote: > On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 12:13 -0400, Paul Smith wrote: > > On Mon, 2019-10-14 at 12:07 +0200, Svante Signell wrote: > > > Perhaps we should divide free software into two groups: 1) Really > > > free software where Freedom 1 applies and 2) not-so-free software > > > where Freedom 1 does no longer applies. > > > > > > Here gnome and systemd are in the second kind. > > > > Both GNOME and systemd are fully free software that support all four > > freedoms, including freedom 1. > > Still, I think we need to differentiate between Really Free Software > and Not-So-Free Software. Maybe even to add one more freedom: For > example adding a, non-commercial, non-lock-in, non-proprietary, *NIX > and KISS-friendly, clause. Software development is nowadays too vendor > driven (and purposely made complicated), ruling out contributions from > people not employed by companies working full-time. > > > > Especially systemd, even if GPLed, is currently swallowing most of > > > free software excluding large groups of people to make > > > contributions. > > > > Neither excluding upstream contributions nor "swallowing" other free > > software projects violate any of the four freedoms. > > > > As long as you are able to run the program, access the source code, > > modify the source code as you like, and distribute both the original > > and your modifications to others, then your freedoms are preserved. > > See above. A redefinition of free software is really needed, > independent of RMS being leader of GNU or not. And funding for Really > Free Software can be steered by FSF towards the goal of Really Free > Software, leaving non-complying companies out of funding. (whoever will > take the lead of FSF after RMS). > > I'd really like RMS to reply on these issues, adding him to this email > recipients too. > > Thanks! > Free software is about end-user freedom, and has nothing to do with the ability to push upstream. The distinction "really free" vs "not so free" looks to me like an appeal to purity[0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman I no longer see how this is relevant to guix-devel.