On Thu, 2021-04-29 at 13:46 +0200, Leo Prikler wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, den 29.04.2021, 11:13 +0200 schrieb Léo Le Bouter:
> > On Wed, 2021-04-28 at 17:52 +0200, Marius Bakke wrote:
> > > Léo,
> > > 
> > > We maintainers have been disappointed by Marks harsh tone which
> > > do
> > > not
> > > meet the project's communication standards, but also by your
> > > apparent
> > > lack of will to reply constructively to legitimate criticism.
> > > 
> > > This is the next in a series of incidents.  The incidents are
> > > okay
> > > --we
> > > we all make mistakes and that's how we learn--but we interpreted
> > > your
> > > responses all too often as dismissive and defensive, rather than
> > > understanding and forward-looking.  This has been causing
> > > unnecessary
> > > friction and stress, and is not how we envision peaceful
> > > collaboration.
> > > 
> > > I'm sorry to say your commit privileges have been temporarily
> > > suspended.  After one month, you are invited to get in touch with
> > > the
> > > maintainers collective and discuss next steps.
> > > 
> > > You have done terrific work in Guix in the short time you've been
> > > around: from the POWER9 port, to the many security fixes,
> > > to tracking and reporting issues, and suggesting improvements to
> > > the
> > > tools.  I hope you'll eventually rejoin to collaborate in the
> > > peaceful
> > > and empathetic fashion that this project encourages.
> > > 
> > 
> > Hello!
> > 
> > To make a statement about this on the public mailing list also, I
> > think
> > such suspension is largely unfair and unjustified.
> I personally disagree.  While their tone may have been questionable,
> I
> find it important that both committers and non-committers are able to
> call changes into question, everything else would not be democratic. 
> Ideally, that would happen during review, but this thread has clearly
> indicated that the review process failed in this instance.  Perhaps
> informing you privately first is more fair, but pointless assignments
> of guilt aside it is an issue that we should all be aware of and
> learn
> from, so as to not repeat it.
> 
> > It seems I am expected to do peaceful collaboration with people who
> > are
> > not writing messages in a non-violent manner, and I refuse to
> > engage
> > further in that context. I do not want to answer Mark or anyone
> > else
> > who does not write in a friendly way. If that means I cannot be a
> > GNU
> > Guix contributor then I will not be any longer. It means for me
> > that
> > GNU Guix is not a safe place for me to contribute to.
> Even if unfriendly, we are not attacking you on any non-technical
> grounds, but instead asking you to do self-criticism and to learn
> from
> your mistake.  You can (and should) call the tone in which this is
> done
> into question, but this does not absolve you from your duty to ensure
> package quality standards.
> 
> > I think if anyone expects me to not answer in a dismissive or
> > defensive
> > way then also they must think of the message they're writing if it
> > is
> > encouraging a confrontational response or peaceful collaboration. I
> > don't feel like I have been hindering peaceful collaboration at any
> > time, since everything I've done in GNU Guix was collaborative
> > work.
> > With many people in the GNU Guix community everything goes well and
> > is
> > very peaceful, when there's problems it's with specific people who
> > also
> > happen to write messages in a way that generates confrontation. I
> > cannot and I refuse to collaborate with people who are not being
> > friendly and do not care about the emotions of the humans they're
> > communicating with, it's the reason I come to GNU Guix in the first
> > place, but to me it appears it's not the right place for that
> > either
> > now.
> The criticisms pointed at you comes not just from Mark, but others as
> well.  Others, who I would argue, potentially phrase them in a less
> confrontational manner.  Leaving them unanswered just because Mark's
> tone was inadequate is in my opinion not justified.
> 
> Regards,
> Leo
> 

Hello Leo,

If the criticism is well phrased in the first place, then I have no
issue to address it and go on constructively. The very problem is that
it wasnt well phrased. The rest cannot work great. I am unable to
collaborate in these conditions, I don't think this can change, I am
not even willing to make such change, that is, to accept collaboration
with people who do not care about communicating in a caring way. I
think it is contradictory to GNU Guix spirit to expect me to do that,
and I cannot emotionally do so, even if I wanted to. I have had too
much suffering due to these situations before, I don't want this to
repeat here and now.

Léo