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From: "Léo Le Bouter" <lle-bout@zaclys.net>
To: Leo Prikler <leo.prikler@student.tugraz.at>,
	Marius Bakke <marius@gnu.org>
Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:57:19 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <8b0b1a38c4ce9a5f2a01125dcdc8ac381e423337.camel@zaclys.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5625b10bbae00a3ad57b09c374f56aada62fe465.camel@student.tugraz.at>

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On Thu, 2021-04-29 at 13:46 +0200, Leo Prikler wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, den 29.04.2021, 11:13 +0200 schrieb Léo Le Bouter:
> > On Wed, 2021-04-28 at 17:52 +0200, Marius Bakke wrote:
> > > Léo,
> > > 
> > > We maintainers have been disappointed by Marks harsh tone which
> > > do
> > > not
> > > meet the project's communication standards, but also by your
> > > apparent
> > > lack of will to reply constructively to legitimate criticism.
> > > 
> > > This is the next in a series of incidents.  The incidents are
> > > okay
> > > --we
> > > we all make mistakes and that's how we learn--but we interpreted
> > > your
> > > responses all too often as dismissive and defensive, rather than
> > > understanding and forward-looking.  This has been causing
> > > unnecessary
> > > friction and stress, and is not how we envision peaceful
> > > collaboration.
> > > 
> > > I'm sorry to say your commit privileges have been temporarily
> > > suspended.  After one month, you are invited to get in touch with
> > > the
> > > maintainers collective and discuss next steps.
> > > 
> > > You have done terrific work in Guix in the short time you've been
> > > around: from the POWER9 port, to the many security fixes,
> > > to tracking and reporting issues, and suggesting improvements to
> > > the
> > > tools.  I hope you'll eventually rejoin to collaborate in the
> > > peaceful
> > > and empathetic fashion that this project encourages.
> > > 
> > 
> > Hello!
> > 
> > To make a statement about this on the public mailing list also, I
> > think
> > such suspension is largely unfair and unjustified.
> I personally disagree.  While their tone may have been questionable,
> I
> find it important that both committers and non-committers are able to
> call changes into question, everything else would not be democratic. 
> Ideally, that would happen during review, but this thread has clearly
> indicated that the review process failed in this instance.  Perhaps
> informing you privately first is more fair, but pointless assignments
> of guilt aside it is an issue that we should all be aware of and
> learn
> from, so as to not repeat it.
> 
> > It seems I am expected to do peaceful collaboration with people who
> > are
> > not writing messages in a non-violent manner, and I refuse to
> > engage
> > further in that context. I do not want to answer Mark or anyone
> > else
> > who does not write in a friendly way. If that means I cannot be a
> > GNU
> > Guix contributor then I will not be any longer. It means for me
> > that
> > GNU Guix is not a safe place for me to contribute to.
> Even if unfriendly, we are not attacking you on any non-technical
> grounds, but instead asking you to do self-criticism and to learn
> from
> your mistake.  You can (and should) call the tone in which this is
> done
> into question, but this does not absolve you from your duty to ensure
> package quality standards.
> 
> > I think if anyone expects me to not answer in a dismissive or
> > defensive
> > way then also they must think of the message they're writing if it
> > is
> > encouraging a confrontational response or peaceful collaboration. I
> > don't feel like I have been hindering peaceful collaboration at any
> > time, since everything I've done in GNU Guix was collaborative
> > work.
> > With many people in the GNU Guix community everything goes well and
> > is
> > very peaceful, when there's problems it's with specific people who
> > also
> > happen to write messages in a way that generates confrontation. I
> > cannot and I refuse to collaborate with people who are not being
> > friendly and do not care about the emotions of the humans they're
> > communicating with, it's the reason I come to GNU Guix in the first
> > place, but to me it appears it's not the right place for that
> > either
> > now.
> The criticisms pointed at you comes not just from Mark, but others as
> well.  Others, who I would argue, potentially phrase them in a less
> confrontational manner.  Leaving them unanswered just because Mark's
> tone was inadequate is in my opinion not justified.
> 
> Regards,
> Leo
> 

Hello Leo,

If the criticism is well phrased in the first place, then I have no
issue to address it and go on constructively. The very problem is that
it wasnt well phrased. The rest cannot work great. I am unable to
collaborate in these conditions, I don't think this can change, I am
not even willing to make such change, that is, to accept collaboration
with people who do not care about communicating in a caring way. I
think it is contradictory to GNU Guix spirit to expect me to do that,
and I cannot emotionally do so, even if I wanted to. I have had too
much suffering due to these situations before, I don't want this to
repeat here and now.

Léo

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  reply	other threads:[~2021-04-29 11:57 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 102+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-04-22  0:58 A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes Raghav Gururajan
2021-04-22  2:41 ` Mark H Weaver
2021-04-22  3:17   ` Raghav Gururajan
2021-04-22  4:05     ` Raghav Gururajan
2021-04-22  4:33       ` Mark H Weaver
2021-04-22  5:02         ` Raghav Gururajan
2021-04-22 17:21       ` Mark H Weaver
2021-04-22 17:40         ` Another misleading commit log (was Re: A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes) Mark H Weaver
2021-04-22 20:06           ` Léo Le Bouter
2021-04-22 21:24             ` Ricardo Wurmus
2021-04-22 21:33             ` Mark H Weaver
2021-04-26 17:17               ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-04-28 16:43                 ` Criticisms of my "tone" " Mark H Weaver
2021-04-28 17:55                   ` Leo Famulari
2021-04-28 20:24                     ` Pjotr Prins
2021-04-29  6:54                       ` Joshua Branson
2021-04-29  9:26                   ` Léo Le Bouter
2021-04-29 15:30                     ` Matias Jose Seco Baccanelli
2021-04-30  0:57                   ` aviva
2021-05-01 17:02                   ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2021-05-01 20:07                     ` Leo Prikler
2021-05-01 22:12                       ` Mark H Weaver
2021-05-01 22:54                         ` Mark H Weaver
2021-05-01 23:15                         ` Leo Prikler
2021-05-02  3:13                           ` Mark H Weaver
2021-05-02 10:31                             ` Leo Prikler
2021-05-03  9:00                               ` Mark H Weaver
2021-05-03  9:59                                 ` Leo Prikler
2021-05-03 17:00                                   ` Mark H Weaver
2021-05-02  4:17                           ` 宋文武
2021-05-02  4:31                             ` Leo Famulari
2021-05-02  6:26                               ` 宋文武
2021-05-02 15:01                             ` Leo Prikler
2021-05-02 19:29                               ` Mark H Weaver
2021-05-02 20:09                                 ` Leo Prikler
2021-05-02 21:02                                   ` Mark H Weaver
2021-05-02 21:58                                     ` Leo Prikler
2021-05-02 20:59                                 ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-05-02 21:23                                   ` Mark H Weaver
     [not found]                           ` <87czu9sr9k.fsf@outlook.com>
2021-05-02  4:33                             ` 宋文武
2021-04-22 21:51             ` Another misleading commit log " Ludovic Courtès
2021-04-22 21:49         ` A "cosmetic changes" commit that removes security fixes Raghav Gururajan
2021-04-24  8:09           ` Mark H Weaver
2021-04-30  0:58             ` aviva
2021-04-22 18:37       ` Leo Famulari
2021-04-22 18:48         ` Mark H Weaver
2021-04-22 21:50         ` Raghav Gururajan
2021-04-22  4:08     ` Mark H Weaver
2021-04-22 11:39       ` 宋文武
2021-04-22 13:28         ` Mark H Weaver
2021-04-22 20:01       ` Léo Le Bouter
2021-04-22 21:08         ` Christopher Baines
2021-04-22 21:09         ` Leo Prikler
2021-04-22 21:21         ` Mark H Weaver
2021-04-23 17:52           ` Maxim Cournoyer
2021-04-23 18:00             ` Raghav Gururajan
2021-04-23 18:38               ` Maxim Cournoyer
2021-04-23 22:06                 ` Raghav Gururajan
2021-04-23 18:50             ` Léo Le Bouter
2021-04-23 19:15               ` Leo Prikler
2021-04-23 19:18               ` Leo Famulari
2021-04-23 19:33                 ` Léo Le Bouter
2021-04-23 20:12                   ` Leo Famulari
2021-04-26 17:06                     ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2021-04-26 17:32                       ` Leo Famulari
2021-04-26 21:56                         ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2021-04-26 23:01                           ` Leo Famulari
2021-04-24  7:46                   ` Mark H Weaver
2021-04-26 14:59                     ` Léo Le Bouter
2021-04-26 15:23                       ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
2021-04-26 17:21                         ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-04-26 20:07                           ` Pjotr Prins
2021-04-26 17:46                         ` Léo Le Bouter
2021-04-28 15:52                           ` Marius Bakke
2021-04-29  9:13                             ` Léo Le Bouter
2021-04-29 11:46                               ` Leo Prikler
2021-04-29 11:57                                 ` Léo Le Bouter [this message]
2021-04-29 11:41                             ` Arun Isaac
2021-04-29 12:44                               ` Pierre Neidhardt
2021-04-29 14:14                                 ` Pjotr Prins
2021-04-30 17:40                                   ` Pierre Neidhardt
2021-04-30 19:56                                     ` Pjotr Prins
2021-05-01  7:23                                       ` Arun Isaac
2021-05-01 12:40                                         ` Pjotr Prins
2021-05-01  9:15                                       ` Pierre Neidhardt
2021-05-01 10:18                                         ` Yasuaki Kudo
2021-05-03  7:18                                           ` Pierre Neidhardt
2021-05-01 14:50                                     ` Giovanni Biscuolo
2021-05-03  7:25                                       ` Pierre Neidhardt
2021-05-04  2:18                                         ` Bengt Richter
2021-05-04  6:55                                           ` Pierre Neidhardt
2021-05-04 15:43                                             ` Ludovic Courtès
2021-05-06 17:18                                               ` Pierre Neidhardt
2021-04-29 16:21                               ` Arun Isaac
2021-04-26 19:31                 ` Léo Le Bouter
2021-04-27 18:10                   ` Andreas Enge
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-04-21 21:11 Mark H Weaver
2021-04-21 21:24 ` Mark H Weaver
2021-04-21 22:22   ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
2021-04-21 23:45   ` Raghav Gururajan
2021-04-21 22:16 ` Leo Prikler
2021-04-21 22:52   ` Leo Famulari

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