personal communications server

personal communications server

[Quiliro Ordóñez]

Hello Guix:

I know this has been discussed in the past in this:
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2017-05/msg00210.html
and on another thread on Guix mailing lists. But I cannot find any
information past 2017.

I have read about:
https://freedombox.org/
https://freedombone.org/
But the first does not have an email server and I could not manage to
get the second working.

On the other hand, how can a communication system be secure if it cannot
be audited? The only option for auditability is a reproducible system
that has the source code available. That plus freedom is only currently
obtainable on Guix.

Is there any current discussion or ideas about this?
  
-- 
Saluton.
Quiliro Ordóñez

Do you prefer speaking English?
Vous voulez parler Français?
Çu vi volas paroli Esperanton?

-- 
Saluton.
Quiliro Ordonez

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Re: personal communications server

[Quiliro Ordóñez]

PING

El 2019-07-18 23:42, Quiliro Ordóñez escribió:
> Hello Guix:
> 
> I know this has been discussed in the past in this:
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2017-05/msg00210.html
> and on another thread on Guix mailing lists. But I cannot find any
> information past 2017.
> 
> I have read about:
> https://freedombox.org/
> https://freedombone.org/
> But the first does not have an email server and I could not manage to
> get the second working.
> 
> On the other hand, how can a communication system be secure if it cannot
> be audited? The only option for auditability is a reproducible system
> that has the source code available. That plus freedom is only currently
> obtainable on Guix.
> 
> Is there any current discussion or ideas about this?

Re: personal communications server

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Hi Quiliro,

> PING

It is not clear to me what the question in your earlier email is.

We don’t have a package for freedombox or freedombone, if that’s what
you’re asking.

--
Ricardo

Re: personal communications server

[quiliro]

El Lun, 5 de Agosto de 2019, 4:13 pm, Ricardo Wurmus escribió:
>
> Hi Quiliro,
>
>> PING

Hi Ricardo. Thank you for your response.

> It is not clear to me what the question in your earlier email is.

I would like to know if there is someone that is making a 'guix system
init' config.scm file that has the packages that Freedombone has and that
it has the services integrated in such a way a Fredombone. If not, I am
asking if someone has some ideas or plans or has advanced in such a quest
of making a personal communications server.

> We don’t have a package for freedombox or freedombone, if that’s what
> you’re asking.

I know that there is no package per 'guix search freedombone'.

Re: personal communications server

[Julien Lepiller]

Le 6 août 2019 03:21:37 GMT+02:00, quiliro@riseup.net a écrit :
>El Lun, 5 de Agosto de 2019, 4:13 pm, Ricardo Wurmus escribió:
>>
>> Hi Quiliro,
>>
>>> PING
>
>Hi Ricardo. Thank you for your response.
>
>> It is not clear to me what the question in your earlier email is.
>
>I would like to know if there is someone that is making a 'guix system
>init' config.scm file that has the packages that Freedombone has and
>that
>it has the services integrated in such a way a Fredombone. If not, I am
>asking if someone has some ideas or plans or has advanced in such a
>quest
>of making a personal communications server.
>
>> We don’t have a package for freedombox or freedombone, if that’s what
>> you’re asking.
>
>I know that there is no package per 'guix search freedombone'.

Hi quiliro,

Could explain wgat such a system would do? I'm not familiar with freedombox or freedombone. However, I can tell you we have mail services available, and I configured two personal servers with them. That's what I use to send this very email :)

That said, we could have more system examples for different use cases. We could have an email example just as we have a desktop example for instance. Is that what you're asking for?

Re: personal communications server

[quiliro]

Hi Julien,

Thank you for your response.

> Could explain wgat such a system would do? I'm not familiar with
> freedombox or freedombone. However, I can tell you we have mail services
> available, and I configured two personal servers with them. That's what I
> use to send this very email :)

As per https://freedombone.net/ :

Freedombone

Software for an internet of people

Mainstream software is so broken and the organizations that develop it so
untrustworthy that we are reaching a breaking point. So you want to run
your own internet services? Email, chat, VoIP, web sites, file
synchronization, wikis, blogs, social networks, media hosting, backups,
VPN. Freedombone is a home server system which enables you to self-host
all of these things from your place of residence (not a data center). You
can run Freedombone on an old laptop or single board computer.


As per https://freedombone.net/apps.html :

 This system comes in three versions:

    Standard server version: for the ordinary internet using conventional
domain names
    Onion only server version: uses onion addresses. Doesn't need a domain
name or port forwarding
    Mesh peer/client version: off-grid autonomous operation, separate from
the internet. No servers.

1 Server apps

These apps are available on all server versions of the system, either via
clearnet or onion addresses.
Akaunting - A web based accounts system for small businesses or freelancers.
BabyBuddy - Helps caregivers track sleep, feedings, diaper changes, and
tummy time.
Bludit - Databaseless blogging system.
CryptPad - Collaborative documents, presentations, votes and drawing.
Datserver - Seed dat protocol files from your server to make them always
accessible.
DLNA - Play media on UPNP/DLNA supported devices
Dokuwiki - A databaseless wiki system.
EteSync - End-to-end encrypted sync of calendar and contacts between devices.
Etherpad - Collaborative document creation.
Federated wiki - A new approach to creating wiki content.
Gogs - Lightweight git project hosting system.
HTMLy - Databaseless blogging system.
IRC Server - Chat server with bouncer.
Icecast media stream - Make your own internet radio station.
KanBoard - Simple kanban system for managing projects or TODO lists.
Koel - Access your music collection from any internet connected device.
Lychee - Make your photo albums available on the web.
Mailpile - Modern email client which supports GPG encryption.
Mumble - VoIP and text chat system.
NextCloud - File storage, chat and video conferencing.
PeerTube - Peer-to-peer video hosting.
Pi-Hole - Block web ads at the DNS level.
PrivateBin - Pastebin where the server has zero knowledge of the content.
Rocketchat - Non-federated chat server (x86 systems only).
Smol RSS - Minimal RSS reader.
Syncthing - Synchronise files across all of your devices.
Turtl - Privately create and share notes and images.
XMPP - Chat server.

2 Standard server apps

These apps are not available on the onion only versions, since they can't
currently be onion routed.
Friendica - Federated social network system.
Hubzilla - Web publishing platform with social network like features.
Zap - Nomadic social network server

3 Mesh apps

CryptPad - Collaborate on documents, presentations, votes and drawing
while off the grid
IPFS public folder - Share files/audio/video on the mesh.
Kdenlive - Edit videos
Pelican - Static blogging with a large choice of themes
qTox - The main text, VoIP and video chat application
Shotwell - Manage and edit photos


> That said, we could have more system examples for different use cases. We
> could have an email example just as we have a desktop example for
> instance. Is that what you're asking for?

Both Freedombox and Freedombone are made to help administration be easy
and to have all users have all services in order to avoid repeatedly
creating users and administrating them for each service. I chose
Freedombone and not Freedombox because the former has the intention of
making it work exclusively with libre software, it also has mail server
and has more applications than the former.

I do not know much about Freedombox. On Freedombone, each service must be
activated or else it is not installed. The only default service is email.
I think that the services Google offers would be enough for most users and
all applications that Freedombone offers are not necessary. But I think
that it is good that they are available to choose for different opinions
of administration.

Freedombone is just Debian plus the above mentioned programs installed via
bash scripts. Is it possible to make something similar on Guix? Could we
import the bash scripts and is it even necessary?

Thank you for you input.
Quiliro

Re: personal communications server

[Julien Lepiller]

Le 6 août 2019 16:25:18 GMT+02:00, quiliro@riseup.net a écrit :
>Hi Julien,
>
>Thank you for your response.
>
>> Could explain wgat such a system would do? I'm not familiar with
>> freedombox or freedombone. However, I can tell you we have mail
>services
>> available, and I configured two personal servers with them. That's
>what I
>> use to send this very email :)
>
>As per https://freedombone.net/ :
>
>Freedombone
>
>Software for an internet of people
>
>Mainstream software is so broken and the organizations that develop it
>so
>untrustworthy that we are reaching a breaking point. So you want to run
>your own internet services? Email, chat, VoIP, web sites, file
>synchronization, wikis, blogs, social networks, media hosting, backups,
>VPN. Freedombone is a home server system which enables you to self-host
>all of these things from your place of residence (not a data center).
>You
>can run Freedombone on an old laptop or single board computer.
>
>
>As per https://freedombone.net/apps.html :
>
> This system comes in three versions:
>
>  Standard server version: for the ordinary internet using conventional
>domain names
> Onion only server version: uses onion addresses. Doesn't need a domain
>name or port forwarding
> Mesh peer/client version: off-grid autonomous operation, separate from
>the internet. No servers.
>
>1 Server apps
>
>These apps are available on all server versions of the system, either
>via
>clearnet or onion addresses.
>Akaunting - A web based accounts system for small businesses or
>freelancers.
>BabyBuddy - Helps caregivers track sleep, feedings, diaper changes, and
>tummy time.
>Bludit - Databaseless blogging system.
>CryptPad - Collaborative documents, presentations, votes and drawing.
>Datserver - Seed dat protocol files from your server to make them
>always
>accessible.
>DLNA - Play media on UPNP/DLNA supported devices
>Dokuwiki - A databaseless wiki system.
>EteSync - End-to-end encrypted sync of calendar and contacts between
>devices.
>Etherpad - Collaborative document creation.
>Federated wiki - A new approach to creating wiki content.
>Gogs - Lightweight git project hosting system.
>HTMLy - Databaseless blogging system.
>IRC Server - Chat server with bouncer.
>Icecast media stream - Make your own internet radio station.
>KanBoard - Simple kanban system for managing projects or TODO lists.
>Koel - Access your music collection from any internet connected device.
>Lychee - Make your photo albums available on the web.
>Mailpile - Modern email client which supports GPG encryption.
>Mumble - VoIP and text chat system.
>NextCloud - File storage, chat and video conferencing.
>PeerTube - Peer-to-peer video hosting.
>Pi-Hole - Block web ads at the DNS level.
>PrivateBin - Pastebin where the server has zero knowledge of the
>content.
>Rocketchat - Non-federated chat server (x86 systems only).
>Smol RSS - Minimal RSS reader.
>Syncthing - Synchronise files across all of your devices.
>Turtl - Privately create and share notes and images.
>XMPP - Chat server.
>
>2 Standard server apps
>
>These apps are not available on the onion only versions, since they
>can't
>currently be onion routed.
>Friendica - Federated social network system.
>Hubzilla - Web publishing platform with social network like features.
>Zap - Nomadic social network server
>
>3 Mesh apps
>
>CryptPad - Collaborate on documents, presentations, votes and drawing
>while off the grid
>IPFS public folder - Share files/audio/video on the mesh.
>Kdenlive - Edit videos
>Pelican - Static blogging with a large choice of themes
>qTox - The main text, VoIP and video chat application
>Shotwell - Manage and edit photos
>
>
>> That said, we could have more system examples for different use
>cases. We
>> could have an email example just as we have a desktop example for
>> instance. Is that what you're asking for?
>
>Both Freedombox and Freedombone are made to help administration be easy
>and to have all users have all services in order to avoid repeatedly
>creating users and administrating them for each service. I chose
>Freedombone and not Freedombox because the former has the intention of
>making it work exclusively with libre software, it also has mail server
>and has more applications than the former.
>
>I do not know much about Freedombox. On Freedombone, each service must
>be
>activated or else it is not installed. The only default service is
>email.
>I think that the services Google offers would be enough for most users
>and
>all applications that Freedombone offers are not necessary. But I think
>that it is good that they are available to choose for different
>opinions
>of administration.
>
>Freedombone is just Debian plus the above mentioned programs installed
>via
>bash scripts. Is it possible to make something similar on Guix? Could
>we
>import the bash scripts and is it even necessary?
>
>Thank you for you input.
>Quiliro

I don't think we need the bash scripts, only services. From what I read, we could provide a simple file like this and let users choose their services:

(define domain "mydomain.org")
; and other common configuration options
…
(operating-system
  …
  (services
   (cons*
    ;; Uncomment for email
    ;(dovecot-service …)
    …
    ;; Uncomment for cgit
    ; (cgit-service …)
    …
    )))

And then, you have a base with sane defaults for a defined purpose, but can still tweak and change things.

Re: personal communications server

[Ricardo Wurmus]

Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> writes:

> I don't think we need the bash scripts, only services. From what I
> read, we could provide a simple file like this and let users choose
> their services:
>
> (define domain "mydomain.org")
> ; and other common configuration options
> …
> (operating-system
>   …
>   (services
>    (cons*
>     ;; Uncomment for email
>     ;(dovecot-service …)
>     …
>     ;; Uncomment for cgit
>     ; (cgit-service …)
>     …
>     )))
>
> And then, you have a base with sane defaults for a defined purpose,
> but can still tweak and change things.

Or we could provide a procedure generating an operating system
configuration.  The procedure’s arguments would be used to enable or
disable certain services.

--
Ricardo

Re: personal communications server

[quiliro]

El Mar, 6 de Agosto de 2019, 1:19 pm, Ricardo Wurmus escribió:

> Or we could provide a procedure generating an operating system
> configuration.  The procedure’s arguments would be used to enable or
> disable certain services.

What do you mean by "a proceedure"? Is it a definition that would activate
or deactivate groups of services?

Re: personal communications server

[L p R n d n]

Hello,

quiliro@riseup.net writes:

> El Mar, 6 de Agosto de 2019, 1:19 pm, Ricardo Wurmus escribió:
>
>> Or we could provide a procedure generating an operating system
>> configuration.  The procedure’s arguments would be used to enable or
>> disable certain services.
>
> What do you mean by "a proceedure"? Is it a definition that would activate
> or deactivate groups of services?

If I'm not mistaken, a procedure in Guile is simply what you would call
a function in most other languages. So what I suppose Ricardo is talking
about is a procedure that would output a preconfigured os.
I've already thought about that kind of "configuration helpers"
and I find the idea quite appealing. We could go from "activate x
services" to "I want a desktop operating system with bluetooth" ot "I
want a server with mail and Tor". The procedure would deal with ports
matching etc

Have a nice day,

L  p r n  d n

Re: personal communications server

[L p R n d n]

Hello,

Ricardo Wurmus <rekado@elephly.net> writes:

> Julien Lepiller <julien@lepiller.eu> writes:
>
>> I don't think we need the bash scripts, only services. From what I
>> read, we could provide a simple file like this and let users choose
>> their services:
>>
>> (define domain "mydomain.org")
>> ; and other common configuration options
>> …
>> (operating-system
>>   …
>>   (services
>>    (cons*
>>     ;; Uncomment for email
>>     ;(dovecot-service …)
>>     …
>>     ;; Uncomment for cgit
>>     ; (cgit-service …)
>>     …
>>     )))
>>
>> And then, you have a base with sane defaults for a defined purpose,
>> but can still tweak and change things.
>
> Or we could provide a procedure generating an operating system
> configuration.  The procedure’s arguments would be used to enable or
> disable certain services.

Just being curious here, why a whole operating system configuration? Why
not just a list of services?

Thanks,

L  p r n  d n  


> --
> Ricardo

Re: personal communications server

[quiliro]

> I don't think we need the bash scripts, only services. From what I read,
> we could provide a simple file like this and let users choose their
> services:
>
> (define domain "mydomain.org")
> ; and other common configuration options
> …
> (operating-system
>   …
>   (services
>    (cons*
>     ;; Uncomment for email
>     ;(dovecot-service …)
>     …
>     ;; Uncomment for cgit
>     ; (cgit-service …)
>     …
>     )))
>
> And then, you have a base with sane defaults for a defined purpose, but
> can still tweak and change things.

I like this.

The users could also be included on this configuration. I am not sure if
users on the system are used also as users of the different services.

It would be nice to have something that would avoid configuration file
errors. Maybe some test that would review syntax on Emacs.

Maybe the best would be that each service would be run by a different user
in order to make the system more secure.

Just ideas.
Q

Re: personal communications server

[Julien Lepiller]

Le 6 août 2019 23:48:29 GMT+02:00, quiliro@riseup.net a écrit :
>> I don't think we need the bash scripts, only services. From what I
>read,
>> we could provide a simple file like this and let users choose their
>> services:
>>
>> (define domain "mydomain.org")
>> ; and other common configuration options
>> …
>> (operating-system
>>   …
>>   (services
>>    (cons*
>>     ;; Uncomment for email
>>     ;(dovecot-service …)
>>     …
>>     ;; Uncomment for cgit
>>     ; (cgit-service …)
>>     …
>>     )))
>>
>> And then, you have a base with sane defaults for a defined purpose,
>but
>> can still tweak and change things.
>
>I like this.
>
>The users could also be included on this configuration. I am not sure
>if
>users on the system are used also as users of the different services.
>
>It would be nice to have something that would avoid configuration file
>errors. Maybe some test that would review syntax on Emacs.
>
>Maybe the best would be that each service would be run by a different
>user
>in order to make the system more secure.
>
>Just ideas.
>Q

It's already the case in guix: for instance, we have a mariadb that runs under the mariadb user. The service definition itself extends the list of system users, so as a user it's completely transparent and you can't make a mistake.

Since most services use a scheme wrapper to define their configuration, it's easy to check parameters to ensure the configuration will work. It's not done in every service, and not complete, but it's doable, not only for this project, but for any guix user. You should really go check the manual on services :)

Re: personal communications server

[Alex Sassmannshausen]

Heya,

quiliro@riseup.net writes:

> El Lun, 5 de Agosto de 2019, 4:13 pm, Ricardo Wurmus escribió:
>>
>> Hi Quiliro,
>>
>>> PING
>
> Hi Ricardo. Thank you for your response.
>
>> It is not clear to me what the question in your earlier email is.
>
> I would like to know if there is someone that is making a 'guix system
> init' config.scm file that has the packages that Freedombone has and that
> it has the services integrated in such a way a Fredombone. If not, I am
> asking if someone has some ideas or plans or has advanced in such a quest
> of making a personal communications server.

I like this idea a lot, and for me it's somewhere down in my list of
awesome projects to do with some friends when we organise a hacking get
together… probably not quite as firm a commitment as you were looking
for ;-)

Alex

>
>> We don’t have a package for freedombox or freedombone, if that’s what
>> you’re asking.
>
> I know that there is no package per 'guix search freedombone'.