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d="scan'208";a="501142978" Received: from 91-160-117-201.subs.proxad.net (HELO ribbon) ([91.160.117.201]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 01 Apr 2021 15:43:46 +0200 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: zimoun Cc: Efraim Flashner , guix-science@gnu.org Subject: Re: GC strategy on clusters References: <87v9969uml.fsf@inria.fr> <87wntm89lp.fsf@inria.fr> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 12 Germinal an 229 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2021 15:43:45 +0200 In-Reply-To: (zimoun's message of "Thu, 1 Apr 2021 15:29:38 +0200") Message-ID: <87zgyi6rxq.fsf@inria.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=192.134.164.83; 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dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-science-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-science-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 4043219D79 X-Spam-Score: -2.43 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: OCGvvpcFSN0e Hi, zimoun skribis: >> It depends. A practical use case I have in mind: you run experiments, >> you submit a paper including its results, you get initial reviews months >> later, and even later it=E2=80=99s published and you get to present it. = At that >> point, you want to answer questions and to reproduce it. 4=E2=80=936 mo= nths is >> not a lot in that context. > > To add another data point. Even it is hard to have a good overview, I > would say the average is 2-4 years for a typical project. It is hard > because currently all is not done with the same tools for the same > task. For instance, some data is cleaned with some tools, then an > partial analysis is done, months later another data is added so > another partial analysis with probably different tools, then months > later a full toolsuite as Bioconductor (or whatever) is updated and > some analysis are re-done. The final publication is a mix of all over > the 2-4 years project with details at various level. Right. >> Good points. Hopefully =E2=80=9Csources go missing=E2=80=9D can soon be= considered >> addressed. Really, failing TLS tests is the most worrisome issue to me >> because we don=E2=80=99t have any idea on how to address it systematical= ly. > > By "soon", you mean the bricks are there and it is missing to glue > them together. From my opinion, some details need to be addressed to > have a full end-to-end sources fallback, since evil is hidden inside > the details. ;-) True! I=E2=80=99m really hopeful about the Disarchive/SWH combination, tog= ether with . Of course we=E2=80=99ll have to monitor that, and we can expect bumps on the road :-), but at least we have a plan. > About the TLS, you proposed to setup a machine ahead of clock. Maybe > it is worth to try. Oh sure, that trick definitely works. But it=E2=80=99s a terrible hack, an= d it means that, by default, people will just fail to build the package. > Well, when we discussed the '--list-profiles', it was initially for my > personal purposes. Then, I have tried to use it to monitor the few > users that I have. Well, in Biology they have the concept of "-80 > fridge". It is a big and very cold fridge where you keep samples, > potentially for a long time. Everybody put in until it is full and > once it is full, there is endless discussion on what to throw... until > the fridge is broken because shutdown or unexpected failures and then > it is obvious to everybody what needs to be taken or thrown. I am > using such analogy to explain the hygiene to have on shared machines > Hum, once written I do not know if it relevant. ;-) It surely is. :-) I mean, I didn=E2=80=99t even think about it until GC couldn=E2=80=99t make any progress. > From my point of view, having a channel+manifest "backup" for old > profiles seems something to try. It cost nothing with > ''--export-manifest" and "--export-channels". Yes, though it=E2=80=99s an approximation; so it should only be used when we know that it=E2=80=99s 100% faithful, as is the case for =E2=80=98guix pull= =E2=80=99 profiles. Ludo=E2=80=99.