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[95.29.46.112]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e8sm812731lft.308.2021.10.22.12.36.18 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 22 Oct 2021 12:36:19 -0700 (PDT) From: =?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9_A=2E_Gomes?= To: Ricardo Wurmus Subject: Re: EXWM References: <87sfxgeu69.fsf@gmail.com> <87o87zdbpd.fsf@systemreboot.net> <87wnme91q0.fsf@gmail.com> <87k0idq7mc.fsf@systemreboot.net> <87pms2529l.fsf@gnu.org> <878ryqe10m.fsf@gmail.com> <878ryo40mg.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnm55pb6.fsf@gmail.com> <87ilxo7uof.fsf@elephly.net> Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 22:36:17 +0300 In-Reply-To: <87ilxo7uof.fsf@elephly.net> (Ricardo Wurmus's message of "Fri, 22 Oct 2021 18:55:19 +0000") Message-ID: <87y26kn972.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::12e; envelope-from=andremegafone@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x12e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1634931435; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=DAbksa7C1zy3QtluTnGNG8+xI/fsrGIJoAFW1EAJz5M=; b=JDKiGrEVpOpkkSxdMLwSqopWemUpdnCfA3C4nQe+mUoBTi91JXxFXY0NbLVuyjO6hnrJ+K 1v0EJN/ZzH0GS1UReELt8bQZ6euBanNRk18mtJugqz5g7jeO+a/tlupP3kQaqsigO/jhmC s4ON8js1NOReXVyPNLxAYfi0PUphX7ekgHbnDSWWTRZ/JP38+aYQgR6UFzyrrgwKs3eCgg PDUyL31Kq+6MqGVNSXZ/bsnL2eWuJD7LYlS66y8/bBDwWbsRA5dtfLj2824HmJKcQn9zKy foMp4hhxClgkKTgdtHoeKqLZ9Xw1KHCHwVLclmY6nXhdPrahrv4XfirUZXQB/Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1634931435; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=RKECzkADFgmuVNYP7yxFVT93Fgx0A2LntqLxCUtkt3Uw+e/UAtVyM0/mCtSBh7PAbh6CYu 5NHASuP8TgqkRRG0spTPuWeRVKXrhFIvnnaRLVjCRKOfRHJuBAn5GCmPf+saySpZJdhkWl C8cV24QxcP+GmQXaPyW+9yZtoIkhnBfoTAVS7+h2fto0CoyC0av9RYoJ91mJ829V9lpLZo YR8b8Bwtzi4P++yt3mgh3WCj7f4OQNG9Rlp8AipiQz4dHX8QLKXB7oivpnh4FDsBYm2CU9 deHA3QvhRp7e4DJwAPD0Z7HSrFVFpGGcmFmb60qqaxTb2ARGgNI4Aa+1xH4B/Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=K3txxS+T; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 0.07 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=K3txxS+T; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C4D7533C06 X-Spam-Score: 0.07 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: YTSmJ+FTUP6J Ricardo Wurmus writes: > Hi Andr=C3=A9, > >> I packaged EXWM (the right way) for myself a long time ago. If I'm >> putting effort into this, it's because I think the community is >> missing >> an opportunity to improve. I won't get anything from any of this. >> You, >> on the other hand, seem to be interested in your selfish agenda. > > it=E2=80=99s frustrating to get the feeling to be misunderstood. But ple= ase > take a step back before judging others. =E2=80=9Cselfish agenda=E2=80=9D= sounds a lot > harsher than is warranted in this context. I apologise for the choice of words. > Some background: Guix implements a philosophy that could be described > as =E2=80=9Cmagic with escape hatches=E2=80=9D. We usually offer neat fe= atures and > automation by *default*, but we also provide escape hatches for those > who don=E2=80=99t want the magic or have different requirements. I do understand that, and that's why I like Guix. I started a thread before sending a patch, since I antecipated that it would be a sensitive topic. On top of that, I was concerned about backwards compatibility since, at this point, lots of users are perhaps used to the .exwm file. > The expectation to have EXWM start right up after selecting it as a >window manager is justified, in my opinion. Do we offer a sufficient >escape hatch here? No. My point is that the "magic" that Guix provides in this case is a double-edged sword. Guix forces the execution of (exwm-config-default), unless the user has a .exwm file. That forces a default config on EXWM users, which is unpleasant for those (like me) that have been using it for a long time. Notice that those users have their EXWM configuration where it belongs, i.e. in their Emacs' init file. The .exwm file is non-standard, and it's not documented in any EXWM project resource. This would be somehow alleviated if (exwm-enable) would run, instead of (exwm-config-default). But we can do better. I've advocated to the fact that "choosing EXWM as a window manager" is a meaningless statement. The meaningful statement is "choosing Emacs as the window manager". The user's Emacs init file dictates how EXWM is to be initiated and operated. In short, the EXWM bin wrapper should simply start Emacs. The approach I describe is the "standard" and documented way of using and "starting EXWM". See C-h P exwm RET for more info. Thank you. -- Andr=C3=A9 A. Gomes "Free Thought, Free World"