From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id eLbjGnXqe2GxJwEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 14:35:01 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id yDRMFnXqe2FyOQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 12:35:01 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBB8120F85 for ; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 14:35:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:52728 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mgR63-0003tj-W7 for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 08:35:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47150) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mgR4Y-0003sU-8A for guix-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 08:33:26 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33596) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mgR4X-0003w9-Vd; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 08:33:25 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:To: From; bh=3tLWpIo5ti+zlD9Qfr7125oNV8WXyJPuCC5AZGd5wE4=; b=YYtKj9Ql5b2lGeXq1MFh mMkqgWSbZAq5cbOOZpSLhkhihp968MxLB/2sxEFIIP1HZBvFYpfS2kC4HsGG2OaviDzupFG6tGk9P GSYv2JStNKWaIzxyeYeZypizVwP0zbiaeVAweLTEpYx0mOEyrh9Xq4Xy628WsuWuRtAkOod+GkJtb 21ilGt1VqG/WKZ1ncLzHliRvUyF00qf9u0QpQSZailQpQhxZtGeJYy5Qn1JIUWEe8N5QyyGLZTTrP r+Ix8wg4Z/x66U56ig7LyTUB7QnjTErH/vNDP8+mhCmQ1ZgTWyb6y/dkwnw6T3vuCXVRIVkw6HsFC 6rkGmZ6Z1OZUsA==; Received: from [193.50.110.158] (port=55574 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mgR4X-0000BB-FH; Fri, 29 Oct 2021 08:33:25 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Katherine Cox-Buday Subject: Re: Opining on "modern" development practices (was Re: Merging the =?utf-8?B?4oCcYmluYXJ54oCd?= NPM importer?) References: <87mto8zpll.fsf@airmail.cc> <87zgs3829p.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsttuys3.fsf@dustycloud.org> <877deo473m.fsf@gmail.com> <87a6jeayuf.fsf@ngyro.com> <871r4opfbf.fsf@gmail.com> <87mtnbpv1z.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtnbfyhs.fsf_-_@gmail.com> <87lf2mxj4a.fsf@gnu.org> <87lf2d9orw.fsf@gmail.com> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 8 Brumaire an 230 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2021 14:33:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87lf2d9orw.fsf@gmail.com> (Katherine Cox-Buday's message of "Thu, 28 Oct 2021 10:01:39 -0500") Message-ID: <87y26c104t.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1635510900; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=3tLWpIo5ti+zlD9Qfr7125oNV8WXyJPuCC5AZGd5wE4=; b=HqzEeHpHZ8/zQvLLAooZ2rkkOffq86oSStTYtlaAU7xX5Pi6hxbDfCIZ9Q2Bv945tFL5y5 l8pIgFiXkYfudXutGgxJTIfgFo0Be2Z0JPv5C9rDFVo1ynpgT+s0wKzYA4ioEhmMLaPuX2 m92Q1cKL/bVKJ4F2oRQJD/ZsdWUn3ZytH1Mq1eHM/nUDVCZDVFpmUIw8uGrJga7Wt5YvRK L1ZiqOBiIXqiqKOZo4dsu84A1ts+mEpm6a88IOxwLE/e1bx0xp02hx/ZXLTyImJ8Ctwnl8 S8jiTXXChsK+TvLBBMgGd9vyrXgVsQCZs5vehEAD4BYHRd2vm5x6Mh1jqtBbXw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1635510900; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ELbHJp217BU17GCt8dUgPcx7L4TCuKz3hDZ55Q9EVtLT5i2P6YNKCuOz+XdktcOJCK/3Kz Ngvdb4r7Cx7ZTbMOYcWd2+kppsfQL02CwATxQBq1BzBKZfMIQ6Grr4k/Z/G2IRyCuSBm4V 1OfRlm/rmOx6ann+wCD3IGI50NzK9UBntHHSS+MmkmgU+3Pekq9w36Tq+7MMuXrP66hUzV PUGKz87hDzWaNRbRfi9VULS5IdHMEzWIlCfSefr64hZjQ8A4pxbh4bfsnJ4iS8cBUR20M0 lsbDOS5sUZYIyGhLgg/RUcANXZwaVTSBr1lfJOGIKvtqjUaW4svHW6h3efGUAw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=YYtKj9Ql; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.12 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=YYtKj9Ql; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: CBB8120F85 X-Spam-Score: -3.12 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: fXOWRdz2mCXV Hi, Katherine Cox-Buday skribis: > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: [...] >>> 4. This seems to be how nature and evolution work. >>> >>> Me? I like well-ordered things that have been thoughtfully produced. Bu= t I think about number four a lot. >> >> I do too. :-) > > Think about #4, or like well-ordered things? Both. >> My early free software experience was that of a project managed in >> typical MIT style: the Hurd; I learned a lot from that. > > Have you written about this anywhere? I'd love to hear your opinions. Nope! You=E2=80=99ve probably noticed that the Hurd isn=E2=80=99t known as= a lively and successful project, and then there are things like the Critique=C2=B9 or wo= rk on porting the Hurd to the L4 microkernel which, while showing the =E2=80=9Cright=E2=80=9D direction research-wise, have also had IMO the effe= ct of suggesting that it=E2=80=99s never going to be good enough. I think a project needs to be aware of its shortcomings, but it also needs achievable milestones, and it needs to refrain from elitism. =C2=B9 http://walfield.org/papers/200707-walfield-critique-of-the-GNU-Hurd.= pdf >> In Guix, I think we=E2=80=99ve always tried from Day 1 to do the Right T= hing, >> but also from Day 1, we=E2=80=99ve always tried not to go too far and to= =E2=80=9Ccut >> corners=E2=80=9D when doing the Right Thing would have jeopardized pract= icality. >> >> The package simplification work that landed this summer in >> =E2=80=98core-updates=E2=80=99 is an example of a case where the Right T= hing was delayed >> for several years because it just wasn=E2=80=99t attainable in a timely = fashion >> back then. > > I have been trying to follow the project more closely for the past few mo= nths, but I have completely missed this simplification work. Is there somew= here I can read about it? Scroll back through guix-patches maybe? See . Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.