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Fri, 24 Feb 2023 05:43:06 -0800 (PST) From: Simon Tournier In-Reply-To: <87h6vbgpxf.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87mt56gac6.fsf@gmail.com> <871qmg79u7.fsf@gnu.org> <87356whvaa.fsf@gmail.com> <875ybrmfuv.fsf@gmail.com> <87h6vbgpxf.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 14:43:03 +0100 Message-ID: <87y1onkwm0.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-guix@gnu.org List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1677246266; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=LEA1mHZ/yrpY0rk/1WNLcQuC1IRTH3kOFdbI1aA/qZg+GZFmI7vR0Kh0HrUPK6W0wRSPHS LQNEeDCBkjxxntQwCf5M0bT3ikK3b4Y6bpi+G2rKZDXFyHUnnU7ta5SzzzFD0v+lhyk/IA 0XiXUzmcfi5O2NDeJ7egBiCWZKUMItYCgoiRLAkhPWqXjdG8+CweS+4CEvd7GNqx8VojUE vGdaMzvKnCYltpD5edP4IqE1AGA4vqk8kchacaybTPg6y7Iy/O7gH8Se8rhCZhct0zBCb4 dsxFHLHRYTIumezl2HgP9LDuG7BzXvn3tckEuXrgI/KQYemZZnHL+mx/MQWWWg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; 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dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=E+HlEsZ5; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-TUID: l+KDhkbh7YSw Hi Maxim, On ven., 24 f=C3=A9vr. 2023 at 08:21, Maxim Cournoyer wrote: >> Well, I am not convinced that enforce the ordering is a good thing >> because as Ludo said, some HPC user exploits this control of ordering to >> generate complex transformations. > > Could we gather more information about that use case? It needs to be > clear if we are to constrain the design (solution) by it. Well, I do not have the details. Just to mention two presentations [1,2] exposing how transformations help for them. 1: 2: There they intensively uses transformations. For instance, p.4 of [2] it reads, guix environment --pure --with-input=3Dpastix-5=3Dpastix-5-mkl \ --with-input=3Dmumps-scotch-openmpi=3Dmumps-mkl-scotch-openmpi \ --with-input=3Dopenblas=3Dmkl --with-git-url=3Dgcvb=3D$HOME/src/gcv= b \ --with-commit=3Dgcvb=3D40d88ba241db4c71ac3e1fe8024fba4d906f45b1 \ --preserve=3D^SLURM --ad-hoc bash coreutils inetutils findutils \ grep sed bc openssh python python-psutil gcvb scab slurm@19 openmpi For this specific example, the order may or not matter. The point is that HPC folks are intensively using transformations and, since the order currently matters, enforcing one specific order could break their workflow, and even could make impossible what is currently possible. Quoting Ludo, (this is crucial for our H= PC users, who routinely combine a whole bunch of options; you have no = idea how far they go once you give them the tool :-)) and I agree with =C2=AB you have no idea how far they go once you give them the tool :-)) =C2=BB. For what my opinion is worth. :-) Cheers, simon