Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[janneke]

Hello Guix!

Now that the last (!) core-updates branch has been merged, Guix/Hurd on
real iron has become a reality.  It's still experimental and certainly
not for daily use, but exciting for sure!  Read all about it in this new
post:

    https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2024/hurd-on-thinkpad/

Greetings,
Janneke

-- 
Janneke Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org>  | GNU LilyPond https://LilyPond.org
Freelance IT https://www.JoyOfSource.com | Avatar® https://AvatarAcademy.com

Re: Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[Pjotr Prins]

Thank you Jan. Incredible work everyone! We want to hear from the first
person who runs Hurd as a daily driver :). Looks like it is close.

On Sun, Nov 24, 2024 at 09:50:37PM +0100, janneke@gnu.org wrote:
> Hello Guix!
> 
> Now that the last (!) core-updates branch has been merged, Guix/Hurd on
> real iron has become a reality.  It's still experimental and certainly
> not for daily use, but exciting for sure!  Read all about it in this new
> post:
> 
>     https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2024/hurd-on-thinkpad/
> 
> Greetings,
> Janneke
> 
> -- 
> Janneke Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org>  | GNU LilyPond https://LilyPond.org
> Freelance IT https://www.JoyOfSource.com | Avatar® https://AvatarAcademy.com
> 

-- 

Re: Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[Janneke Nieuwenhuizen]

Pjotr Prins writes:

> Thank you Jan. Incredible work everyone!

Most welcome and much appreciated Pjotr!

> We want to hear from the first person who runs Hurd as a daily driver
> :). Looks like it is close.

So, we've already got two failure reports of people trying and we have a
week-end comping up!  Third one's a charm?  Let's hear from you!

> On Sun, Nov 24, 2024 at 09:50:37PM +0100, janneke@gnu.org wrote:
>> Hello Guix!
>> 
>> Now that the last (!) core-updates branch has been merged, Guix/Hurd on
>> real iron has become a reality.  It's still experimental and certainly
>> not for daily use, but exciting for sure!  Read all about it in this new
>> post:
>> 
>>     https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2024/hurd-on-thinkpad/
>> 
>> Greetings,
>> Janneke
>> 
>> -- 
>> Janneke Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org>  | GNU LilyPond https://LilyPond.org
>> Freelance IT https://www.JoyOfSource.com | Avatar® https://AvatarAcademy.com
>> 

-- 
Janneke Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org>  | GNU LilyPond https://LilyPond.org
Freelance IT https://www.JoyOfSource.com | Avatar® https://AvatarAcademy.com

Re: Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[Tanguy LE CARROUR]

Hi Janneke,


Quoting janneke@gnu.org (2024-11-24 21:50:37)
> Now that the last (!) core-updates branch has been merged, Guix/Hurd on
> real iron has become a reality.  It's still experimental and certainly
> not for daily use, but exciting for sure!  Read all about it in this new
> post:
> 
>     https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2024/hurd-on-thinkpad/

Thanks for your work and for having it all summed up in one article!

You wrote "This allows the usage of the Intel 82573L Gigabit Ethernet Controller
of the Thinkpad X60" and I happen to have a X200s. According to ThinkWiki [1]
it’s supposed to have the same e1000e driver, but a different controller: 82567LM.
Any chance that trying to install the Hurd on my laptop also works!? 🤞
I guess I’ll just have to try and see! 😎

[1]: https://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Intel_Gigabit_Ethernet_PCI-Express_Controller


Regards,

-- 
Tanguy

Re: Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[janneke]

Tanguy LE CARROUR writes:

Hello Tanguy,

> Quoting janneke@gnu.org (2024-11-24 21:50:37)
>> Now that the last (!) core-updates branch has been merged, Guix/Hurd on
>> real iron has become a reality.  It's still experimental and certainly
>> not for daily use, but exciting for sure!  Read all about it in this new
>> post:
>> 
>>     https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2024/hurd-on-thinkpad/
>
> Thanks for your work and for having it all summed up in one article!
>
> You wrote "This allows the usage of the Intel 82573L Gigabit Ethernet Controller
> of the Thinkpad X60" and I happen to have a X200s. According to ThinkWiki [1]
> it’s supposed to have the same e1000e driver, but a different controller: 82567LM.
> Any chance that trying to install the Hurd on my laptop also works!? 🤞
> I guess I’ll just have to try and see! 😎

I didn't have any luck yet booting my X230, so that would be
interesting.  Especially because it might run the 64 version
in time.

Janneke

-- 
Janneke Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org>  | GNU LilyPond https://LilyPond.org
Freelance IT https://www.JoyOfSource.com | Avatar® https://AvatarAcademy.com

Re: Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[Tanguy LE CARROUR]

Hi Janneke,


Quoting janneke@gnu.org (2024-11-26 08:37:22)
> Tanguy LE CARROUR writes:
> > You wrote "This allows the usage of the Intel 82573L Gigabit Ethernet Controller
> > of the Thinkpad X60" and I happen to have a X200s. According to ThinkWiki [1]
> > it’s supposed to have the same e1000e driver, but a different controller: 82567LM.
> > Any chance that trying to install the Hurd on my laptop also works!? 🤞
> > I guess I’ll just have to try and see! 😎
> 
> I didn't have any luck yet booting my X230, so that would be
> interesting.  Especially because it might run the 64 version
> in time.

Unfortunately, the installer image won’t build on my system:

```
$ guix system image --image-type=iso9660 --system=i686-linux gnu/system/install.scm
# […]
listing Emacs sub-directories...
building /gnu/store/i22zil7ga0dnxjvsz38d67gxfilhlmvl-etc.drv...
\builder for `/gnu/store/i22zil7ga0dnxjvsz38d67gxfilhlmvl-etc.drv' failed with exit code 1
build of /gnu/store/i22zil7ga0dnxjvsz38d67gxfilhlmvl-etc.drv failed
View build log at '/var/log/guix/drvs/i2/2zil7ga0dnxjvsz38d67gxfilhlmvl-etc.drv.gz'.
cannot build derivation `/gnu/store/9ajx1rqf3gmc40amb0x3n655aqr7dba6-system.drv': 1 dependencies couldn't be built
applying 1 graft for xorriso-1.5.6.pl02 ...
cannot build derivation `/gnu/store/6144hvy7c2fng76i67flq8mha5aqj5v0-image.iso.drv': 1 dependencies couldn't be built
guix system: error: build of `/gnu/store/6144hvy7c2fng76i67flq8mha5aqj5v0-image.iso.drv' failed
```

```
$ gunzip -c /var/log/guix/drvs/i2/2zil7ga0dnxjvsz38d67gxfilhlmvl-etc.drv.gz
Backtrace:
           2 (primitive-load "/gnu/store/l8kp9my6vs166nf51farzimhv8s?")
In ice-9/eval.scm:
    619:8  1 (_ #f)
In unknown file:
           0 (stat "/gnu/store/h4hfxc18n229wy1xx0s2l7d07k9ya369-os-?" ?)

ERROR: In procedure stat:
In procedure stat: Value too large for defined data type: "/gnu/store/h4hfxc18n229wy1xx0s2l7d07k9ya369-os-release"
```

I tried downloading the official installer for `i686`, but there are no `Kernel`
or `Static network service` menus.

Next time (next week?) I’ll try to cross install it from a fresh install of
Guix System… 🤞

Regards,

-- 
Tanguy

Re: Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[jbranso]

November 27, 2024 at 8:41 AM, "Tanguy LE CARROUR" <tanguy@bioneland.org mailto:tanguy@bioneland.org?to=%22Tanguy%20LE%20CARROUR%22%20%3Ctanguy%40bioneland.org%3E > wrote:



> 
> Hi Janneke,
> 
> Quoting janneke@gnu.org (2024-11-26 08:37:22)
> 
> > 
> > Tanguy LE CARROUR writes:
> >  You wrote "This allows the usage of the Intel 82573L Gigabit Ethernet Controller
> >  of the Thinkpad X60" and I happen to have a X200s. According to ThinkWiki [1]
> >  it’s supposed to have the same e1000e driver, but a different controller: 82567LM.
> >  Any chance that trying to install the Hurd on my laptop also works!? 🤞
> >  I guess I’ll just have to try and see! 😎
> >  
> >  I didn't have any luck yet booting my X230, so that would be
> >  interesting. Especially because it might run the 64 version
> >  in time.
> > 
> Unfortunately, the installer image won’t build on my system:
> 
> ```
> $ guix system image --image-type=iso9660 --system=i686-linux gnu/system/install.scm
> # […]
> listing Emacs sub-directories...
> building /gnu/store/i22zil7ga0dnxjvsz38d67gxfilhlmvl-etc.drv...
> \builder for `/gnu/store/i22zil7ga0dnxjvsz38d67gxfilhlmvl-etc.drv' failed with exit code 1
> build of /gnu/store/i22zil7ga0dnxjvsz38d67gxfilhlmvl-etc.drv failed
> View build log at '/var/log/guix/drvs/i2/2zil7ga0dnxjvsz38d67gxfilhlmvl-etc.drv.gz'.
> cannot build derivation `/gnu/store/9ajx1rqf3gmc40amb0x3n655aqr7dba6-system.drv': 1 dependencies couldn't be built
> applying 1 graft for xorriso-1.5.6.pl02 ...
> cannot build derivation `/gnu/store/6144hvy7c2fng76i67flq8mha5aqj5v0-image.iso.drv': 1 dependencies couldn't be built
> guix system: error: build of `/gnu/store/6144hvy7c2fng76i67flq8mha5aqj5v0-image.iso.drv' failed
> ```
> 
> ```
> $ gunzip -c /var/log/guix/drvs/i2/2zil7ga0dnxjvsz38d67gxfilhlmvl-etc.drv.gz
> Backtrace:
>  2 (primitive-load "/gnu/store/l8kp9my6vs166nf51farzimhv8s?")
> In ice-9/eval.scm:
>  619:8 1 (_ #f)
> In unknown file:
>  0 (stat "/gnu/store/h4hfxc18n229wy1xx0s2l7d07k9ya369-os-?" ?)
> 
> ERROR: In procedure stat:
> In procedure stat: Value too large for defined data type: "/gnu/store/h4hfxc18n229wy1xx0s2l7d07k9ya369-os-release"
> ```
> 
> I tried downloading the official installer for `i686`, but there are no `Kernel`
> or `Static network service` menus.
> 
> Next time (next week?) I’ll try to cross install it from a fresh install of
> Guix System… 🤞
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Tanguy

It should work on Debian GNU/Hurd.  That's an option as well.

Re: Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[Tanguy LE CARROUR]

Hi,


Quoting jbranso@dismail.de (2024-11-27 20:41:44)
> It should work on Debian GNU/Hurd.  That's an option as well.

Thanks for the reminder. I’ll give it a try… even if it would only be
half of the fun! 😉

-- 
Tanguy

Re: Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[Janneke Nieuwenhuizen]

> November 27, 2024 at 8:41 AM, "Tanguy LE CARROUR" <tanguy@bioneland.org mailto:tanguy@bioneland.org?to=%22Tanguy%20LE%20CARROUR%22%20%3Ctanguy%40bioneland.org%3E > wrote:

Hello,

>> Hi Janneke,
>> 
>> Quoting janneke@gnu.org (2024-11-26 08:37:22)
>> 
>> > 
>> > Tanguy LE CARROUR writes:
>> >  You wrote "This allows the usage of the Intel 82573L Gigabit Ethernet Controller
>> >  of the Thinkpad X60" and I happen to have a X200s. According to ThinkWiki [1]
>> >  it’s supposed to have the same e1000e driver, but a different controller: 82567LM.
>> >  Any chance that trying to install the Hurd on my laptop also works!? 🤞
>> >  I guess I’ll just have to try and see! 😎
>> >  
>> >  I didn't have any luck yet booting my X230, so that would be
>> >  interesting. Especially because it might run the 64 version
>> >  in time.
>> > 
>> Unfortunately, the installer image won’t build on my system:

[..]
>
> It should work on Debian GNU/Hurd.  That's an option as well.

Debian GNU/Hurd is a pretty awesome*) system.  It Just Works (TM).
That's were we got most of my inpiration from, did much of our debugging
on, got many of our patches from, and its developers have helped us
endlessly to make Guix/Hurd a thing.

I conisdered this a well known fact; do you think we should mention this
(more explicitly) in the blog post?  If so, do you have a suggestion?

Greetings,
Janneke

*) as far as you can (still) appreciate a traditional, non-declarative
   system to be awesome these days ;)

-- 
Janneke Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org>  | GNU LilyPond https://LilyPond.org
Freelance IT https://www.JoyOfSource.com | Avatar® https://AvatarAcademy.com

Re: Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[Suhail Singh]

Janneke Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> writes:

> I conisdered this a well known fact; do you think we should mention this
> (more explicitly) in the blog post?  If so, do you have a suggestion?

For what anecdotal evidence is worth, I didn't know about Debian
GNU/Hurd till this email thread.

-- 
Suhail

Re: Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[Janneke Nieuwenhuizen]

Tanguy LE CARROUR writes:

Hi Tanguy,

> Quoting janneke@gnu.org (2024-11-26 08:37:22)
>> Tanguy LE CARROUR writes:
>> > You wrote "This allows the usage of the Intel 82573L Gigabit Ethernet Controller
>> > of the Thinkpad X60" and I happen to have a X200s. According to ThinkWiki [1]
>> > it’s supposed to have the same e1000e driver, but a different controller: 82567LM.
>> > Any chance that trying to install the Hurd on my laptop also works!? 🤞
>> > I guess I’ll just have to try and see! 😎
>> 
>> I didn't have any luck yet booting my X230, so that would be
>> interesting.  Especially because it might run the 64 version
>> in time.
>
> Unfortunately, the installer image won’t build on my system:
>
> ```
> $ guix system image --image-type=iso9660 --system=i686-linux gnu/system/install.scm
> # […]
> listing Emacs sub-directories...
> building /gnu/store/i22zil7ga0dnxjvsz38d67gxfilhlmvl-etc.drv...
> \builder for `/gnu/store/i22zil7ga0dnxjvsz38d67gxfilhlmvl-etc.drv' failed with exit code 1
> build of /gnu/store/i22zil7ga0dnxjvsz38d67gxfilhlmvl-etc.drv failed
> View build log at '/var/log/guix/drvs/i2/2zil7ga0dnxjvsz38d67gxfilhlmvl-etc.drv.gz'.
> cannot build derivation `/gnu/store/9ajx1rqf3gmc40amb0x3n655aqr7dba6-system.drv': 1 dependencies couldn't be built
> applying 1 graft for xorriso-1.5.6.pl02 ...
> cannot build derivation `/gnu/store/6144hvy7c2fng76i67flq8mha5aqj5v0-image.iso.drv': 1 dependencies couldn't be built
> guix system: error: build of `/gnu/store/6144hvy7c2fng76i67flq8mha5aqj5v0-image.iso.drv' failed
> ```
>
> ```
> $ gunzip -c /var/log/guix/drvs/i2/2zil7ga0dnxjvsz38d67gxfilhlmvl-etc.drv.gz
> Backtrace:
>            2 (primitive-load "/gnu/store/l8kp9my6vs166nf51farzimhv8s?")
> In ice-9/eval.scm:
>     619:8  1 (_ #f)
> In unknown file:
>            0 (stat "/gnu/store/h4hfxc18n229wy1xx0s2l7d07k9ya369-os-?" ?)
>
> ERROR: In procedure stat:
> In procedure stat: Value too large for defined data type: "/gnu/store/h4hfxc18n229wy1xx0s2l7d07k9ya369-os-release"
> ```

That's weird.  It (still/again) worsks for me.  Also please note that
the 32bit version using linux-libre-6.10.13 panics for me on the X60
I've had using linux-libre-5.15

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
diff --git a/gnu/system/install.scm b/gnu/system/install.scm
index 78a3cdaaec..65624b131b 100644
--- a/gnu/system/install.scm
+++ b/gnu/system/install.scm
@@ -514,6 +514,7 @@ (define installation-os
     ;; non-functional:
     ;; <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2019-03/msg00441.html>.
     ;; Thus, blacklist it.
+    (kernel linux-libre-5.15)
     (kernel-arguments '("quiet" "modprobe.blacklist=radeon,amdgpu"))
 
     (file-systems
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Using that on commit

    cd26d76fedb7ab13ad91bd5dcfce119892b8e62e
    news: Add entry for the Guix survey.

I built

    make && ./pre-inst-env guix system image --image-type=iso9660 --system=i686-linux gnu/system/install.scm 
=
    https://dezyne.org/janneke/hurd/b40rrc9031gfa9cz06kgk3jcs6xcmdah-image.iso

> I tried downloading the official installer for `i686`, but there are no `Kernel`
> or `Static network service` menus.

Oh so our i686 6.10 kernel does boot for you, interesting!

> Next time (next week?) I’ll try to cross install it from a fresh install of
> Guix System… 🤞

Fingers crossed.  Be aware that Debian GNU/Hurd is actually [much more]
usable as a real system...IOW we could use some help with Guix/Hurd :)

Greetings,
Janneke

-- 
Janneke Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org>  | GNU LilyPond https://LilyPond.org
Freelance IT https://www.JoyOfSource.com | Avatar® https://AvatarAcademy.com

Re: Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[Tanguy LE CARROUR]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1752 bytes --]

Hi Janneke,


Quoting Janneke Nieuwenhuizen (2024-11-28 09:16:09)
> > Quoting janneke@gnu.org (2024-11-26 08:37:22)
> That's weird.  It (still/again) worsks for me.  Also please note that
> the 32bit version using linux-libre-6.10.13 panics for me on the X60
> I've had using linux-libre-5.15
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> diff --git a/gnu/system/install.scm b/gnu/system/install.scm
> index 78a3cdaaec..65624b131b 100644
> --- a/gnu/system/install.scm
> +++ b/gnu/system/install.scm
> @@ -514,6 +514,7 @@ (define installation-os
>      ;; non-functional:
>      ;; <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2019-03/msg00441.html>.
>      ;; Thus, blacklist it.
> +    (kernel linux-libre-5.15)
>      (kernel-arguments '("quiet" "modprobe.blacklist=radeon,amdgpu"))
>  
>      (file-systems
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
> 
> Using that on commit
> 
>     cd26d76fedb7ab13ad91bd5dcfce119892b8e62e
>     news: Add entry for the Guix survey.
> 
> I built
> 
>     make && ./pre-inst-env guix system image --image-type=iso9660 --system=i686-linux gnu/system/install.scm 
> =
>     https://dezyne.org/janneke/hurd/b40rrc9031gfa9cz06kgk3jcs6xcmdah-image.iso

Thanks for the procedure… and the link!
I’ll try to build the image next week, but for now I’ve downloaded your ISO,
burned it and… Kernel panic! 😱


> > Next time (next week?) I’ll try to cross install it from a fresh install of
> > Guix System… 🤞
> 
> Fingers crossed.  Be aware that Debian GNU/Hurd is actually [much more]
> usable as a real system...IOW we could use some help with Guix/Hurd :)

Yeah, I’ll keep it as my plan B.


-- 
Tanguy

[-- Attachment #2: kernel_panic.jpg --]
[-- Type: image/jpeg, Size: 378374 bytes --]

Re: Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[Mark H Weaver]

Hi Janneke,

Janneke Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> writes:

> Now that the last (!) core-updates branch has been merged, Guix/Hurd on
> real iron has become a reality.  It's still experimental and certainly
> not for daily use, but exciting for sure!  Read all about it in this new
> post:
>
>     https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2024/hurd-on-thinkpad/

This is great news!  I still have my 32-bit Thinkpad X60 with Libreboot,
although I haven't used it in several years.  It might be time to
resurrect it.

Thanks to everyone who helped make this happen.  It's quite a milestone.

      Mark

Re: Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[Janneke Nieuwenhuizen]

Mark H Weaver writes:

Hi Mark,

> Janneke Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> Now that the last (!) core-updates branch has been merged, Guix/Hurd on
>> real iron has become a reality.  It's still experimental and certainly
>> not for daily use, but exciting for sure!  Read all about it in this new
>> post:
>>
>>     https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2024/hurd-on-thinkpad/
>
> This is great news!  I still have my 32-bit Thinkpad X60 with Libreboot,
> although I haven't used it in several years.  It might be time to
> resurrect it.

That would be lovely to see!

> Thanks to everyone who helped make this happen.  It's quite a milestone.

Yes, we think so too, and there are exciting progress reports from
upstream too!

Greetings,
Janneke

-- 
Janneke Nieuwenhuizen <janneke@gnu.org>  | GNU LilyPond https://LilyPond.org
Freelance IT https://www.JoyOfSource.com | Avatar® https://AvatarAcademy.com

Re: Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[Ludovic Courtès]

<janneke@gnu.org> skribis:

> Now that the last (!) core-updates branch has been merged, Guix/Hurd on
> real iron has become a reality.  It's still experimental and certainly
> not for daily use, but exciting for sure!  Read all about it in this new
> post:
>
>     https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2024/hurd-on-thinkpad/

Amazing, kudos!!

Ludo’.

Re: Blog post: Guix/Hurd on Real Iron

[Simon Tournier]

Hi Janneke,

On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 at 21:50, <janneke@gnu.org> wrote:

>     https://guix.gnu.org/en/blog/2024/hurd-on-thinkpad/

Oh great!  And so many links inside to explore more.  All these technical
stuff feeds hope:

        “Why bother with the Hurd anyway?” An obvious question because
        it is all too easy to get discouraged, to downplay or
        underestimate the potential social impact of GNU and the Hurd.

Thank you!

Cheers,
simon