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[66.158.155.106]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p20-20020a05620a113400b0076cd2591629sm1521037qkk.6.2023.08.26.20.27.59 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 26 Aug 2023 20:27:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer To: Attila Lendvai Cc: Liliana Marie Prikler , Katherine Cox-Buday , guix-devel Subject: Re: How can we decrease the cognitive overhead for contributors? References: <060dfa07107d0da36ebc7a9f094331163a8dd945.camel@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2023 23:27:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: (Attila Lendvai's message of "Fri, 25 Aug 2023 09:03:32 +0000") Message-ID: <87wmxhi2pt.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::72c; envelope-from=maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com; helo=mail-qk1-x72c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Scanner: mx2.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -7.08 X-Spam-Score: -7.08 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C760D36588 X-TUID: CUiTwM4vrsAx Hello, Attila Lendvai writes: >> Now you might say that this leads to less diversity in the team of >> committers and maintainers as you need a certain level of privilege to >> seriously entertain the idea of dedicating that much time and effort to >> a project and I agree, but I also think this is a bigger reality of >> volunteer work in general. > > > the ultimate goal is not just diversity, but high efficiency of the > people who cooperate around Guix, which then translates into a better > Guix. > > if the "rituals" around Guix contribution were merely a steep initial > learning curve, then one could argue that it's a kind of filter that > helps with the signal to noise ratio. but i think it's also a constant > hindrance, not just an initial learning curve. > > >> Just because it's brought up a lot of times doesn't mean it's a good >> idea. There is a lot of good things that can be done for our web-based >> front ends; improving the search results on issues.guix.gnu.org would >> be one of them. However, I have little hopes for a web based means to >> submit contributions. I think email should be a format that's >> understood by folks who know how to operate a web browser. > > > again, i would press the argument that it's not about being able to, > but about how much effort/attention is wasted on administration > (i.e. not on hacking). i often have the impression that it took > comparable effort to submit a smaller to mid size patch than making > it. In the simplest case, it can be as simple as: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- $ ./pre-inst-env guix refresh -u some-package [build it, try it, fix if needed] $ ./etc/committer.scm $ git send-email --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- Since it's a single patch, there's no jumping through hoops to create the original issue, and the auto-configured git will CC teams people subscribed to the scope of your change (if there are any). -- Thanks, Maxim