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Tue, 12 Sep 2023 01:36:03 +0200 References: <295ef8c8-574a-4169-98f3-6d9aaeb773f1@telenet.be> <6a62aced-9138-0496-fb01-d5d8e89ba8d6@telenet.be> <87h6ohc3gk.fsf@gmail.com> <87zg296z7y.fsf@gmail.com> <871qfkg65s.fsf@web.de> <87pm2ukxn5.fsf@gmail.com> <874jk183wx.fsf@web.de> <87fs3kizd9.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.10.5; emacs 29.0.92 From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2023 01:12:39 +0200 In-reply-to: <87fs3kizd9.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87v8cg7068.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:yM2TlFtrZJHQ8tDouPqdgwvErCAQazcejwVpR3PHeYI6ac71ECb IVyjykU7vXZ2o1dexhAslU1FzSy6Tf36U6aQPVBPz6TXQL9FYL4deDeE4n4MpA1LiM2tTgo gJpXj0g/i2CF+lzFRaAZ1cq/GRLe65Mw6zE926U3CqMcz7Q6QAr80ekmFvICBzMrQWHK8Y1 B42OEre7So7438yY/dhqQ== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:70QpUoXrf5c=;smM+8qJ1IPq5NHVi5UvKwlq/oxJ RvmKU6GTsIjOJw+k+rsgtoeuQh8SWPpQFPle4G03P7MWpZ04AoDfb6XkCFvtfbGdjwG0hC8kk bVdnVx1ak/qkh6pgtyoEgB8PyEZVD1QybfqdIvlbgEhbv32Rr/v6UST6+GA86r2UytdF8htQn vhmb2BgdFCjIeVdpLO5ubfr1B8mJU3ocj6OLjiAS6RlKnSl4ChjFbvASQezhQTLzQ1QNk2uiH jbR6Vo9tC7gz72zouWrSta9dN9WVxqyT/dQf0rasvD/bZqehOn7XzhVQX1RiB32M94NarBpx0 GMxX7UVT24t55ThGpxOYdpWcyYV75dnNeU573mrbQHdgWM+kiHhy6Y80KmMLE3PDX1iNJT40m gO7RczB69/D23C1rdIxzj3UwDiWEiMA90ukKwmaTy5dT7M74YdHzHutL1B6OCu/NGSSwGEmtT qIpNaUyS6oI6qEDUae4NEld6M1RtymC+lk3fPlcA4KcskOOpkJ3qh0PS9GXxWzXC3cavHolGA koSIiltSzKmyMcPBECOQrcngbrhQ2QlYZuOlSEsVHCDNn6YnnryVRoQLa0mqI99Gow0DtTa5/ pHRT4pglaZcZTvYnSJbCHcaEYcwinmGeJi7jFS3cKvpE2E5npemfRIuoZ0Qz4LJqpqIg7CIHf hWkC0fYHOwDD7sLTxsWtvMUDEzcPICrPp5PNfe1UGe3yBFyvyXgxPmhKxXHs9KQODic2w/gIt 9+LGvYKRkIuTmnQ2nPYXE0IzviSE1J3L6P2beazUtG3CpXf9tME4Ioeurl3ExRGsRVFUYuTO1 S9U6/t4yoj6hWRiLb1YiZ9P5x0f6KIrB4rnEdE4/s/X/4+Us9t5KI/lZ7XfqnJPZDXtccVxje W+E7rPTC8baW6xQI5oWVVAGMXFPIlMneG+McWwqyR+C2r7HLUsdpEzpZ/XkwRdcRPtydnX5fY JcYvR7o/eaQEjfBVr1Q62Ut1k1k= X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-guix@gnu.org List-Id: Bug reports for GNU Guix List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: bug-guix-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Scanner: mx1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.82 X-Spam-Score: -4.82 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B2C955A7E7 X-TUID: 7BEBzZbsu7/Z --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I=E2=80=99m skipping a lot to get only to the most important points (save t= ime for us all). Simon Tournier writes: > Instead, it is QA that builds =E2=80=9Cpre-commit=E2=80=9C (patches). Th= anks to > tireless Chris=E2=80=99s work since years, we have some tools for monitor= ing the > impact of one change on the whole package set. Somehow, if I have > correctly understood, QA uses the Build Coordinator to list all the > derivations and then build all the new ones generated by the change. > > So the answer to your question is yes. :-) Aside, help is welcome for > improving QA. So something was missing there that let the change to the ocaml package slip through this january. This should have raised red flags somewhere. Do we have documentation on the process? (link?) >> Since a manifest is strictly dependent on all packages defined in it, >> removing a single referenced package means that the manifest is broken: >> no update works anymore. No security updates come in anymore =E2=80=94 e= ven if >> the package in question worked locally. This is a situation we should >> not cause. =E2=80=A6 > What I am proposing is: if the same package is still failing after > several X or attempts, then we mark it as =E2=80=98broken=E2= =80=99 and it > becomes a candidate for a removal. People who care raise their hand. > And we have a better idea about the real status. This means with the current functionality that the manifest is broken at that point. Nothing can be updated anymore. I=E2=80=99ve been in that situa= tion a few times already with broken packages and it caused weeks of not being able to update because I didn=E2=80=99t have the time to investigate. That=E2=80=99s why I wrote the following: > If we had a way to have placeholder packages (similar to the renamings) > that emit warnings for missing packages but do not break the build, that > would reduce the damage done by removing a package. But I think such a > mechanism must be in place and tested before adding a rule to remove > packages. This would cause us to collect a slowly growing list of removed packages that will be ignored (except for the warning) in manifests. That way we would avoid breaking the setup when removing a package. (define-public-removed the-package-variable (removed-package (name "the-package-name") (reason-for-removal "upstream stopped working a decade ago"))) The key difference between your scenario "some package is broken and I cannot install it" and my scenario "I have a package in my manifest that gets removed, breaking my manifest" is that mine is much more painful because an update breaks changing a working system. In my scenario I don=E2=80=99t just see "oh, this doesn=E2=80=99t work, let= =E2=80=99s choose another way", but a way I=E2=80=99ve been using and building on gets broken. Also I experienced that at least twice already. That I had to go and investigate before I could add a package to my manifest, because the manifest was broken by a removed package. In at least one instance I had not been able to update for several weeks before that and didn=E2=80=99t ha= ve time and energy to investigate. Once I had missed that my system had not updated in months, because I did reconfigure in a cron job and a removed package had broken /etc/config.scm And we actually select for such breakage, because I cannot see locally whether a package failed on CI, so while I can see (and have to fix) packages that fail locally, on-CI-failures are invisible. So instead of removing a package, I think the first step in a process should be to warn everyone with that package in the manifest that it=E2=80= =99s broken on CI =E2=87=92 add a warning to that package, like the rename warni= ngs. If no one takes it up for a few months, replace it with a removed-package placeholder that warns to clean up the manifest. And just keep that placeholder in place to avoid breaking manifests. Best wishes, Arne =2D-=20 Unpolitisch sein hei=C3=9Ft politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. draketo.de --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEE801qEjXQSQPNItXAE++NRSQDw+sFAmT/pGAQHGFybmVfYmFi QHdlYi5kZQAKCRAT741FJAPD66b3D/wK3RPNoLuuKMK32qyomMxgEhArxdR3Zvcq sR+3l1Hmwzn21YneCOfpm4miVyT6JQ7Yq9R6KTFC9ax7kBmPwrtdCT5obzdMimPy vTT4vDK82Mg2rt1+E2IbbwHT98kgW6tNpF2NHjEi5A4mSltO28nxNwcZehWx17lU biPw1OaLpfAckOHAAeWEYIsow9bxyAqtrBr981AjxFUieM51VUcmaAK0zu6Tquet 0r7yXYASP9YnVB8xpA9pojBb95ZyZ2GOr3TQAA7rvTIIW2a9qhjaQgsrLxDftTDk 2OO2Z1Th+E8hZ3NRUZ2lvcoWK396Zpp+Y7i6jc4np+nzKylebSt7mwMU/hlr4RbE 9io59DyTT+/CE0SZjtQt3LMXVdgr0bFqOpu+ibqmZcJXEXoy02/UQTbPNLUaZmHd dZj97z9EJg1kfMTVe0Z/jHTdTKJv6v/tjeIlsVahYPJ/YOM/hvPjTCyM+OEZCiup oZc9pTg64tgOHzd7dZF8xxrAVsi/qiX6kyveLsI1UKy/N8i6UBASdF+tz7Gck1GY uJOyW+sHii1Fmt6wtLpty5HpDWI0N+nTJLqDQBSakfv9XlX3wmaRzAW//ILXDKYt vbChmLMi3+cUKAmBMLtlMqxu7rveocRC6JihR62rgBi7BksdhZ2jNp4zs7KtF4wv K3tafyacI4jEBAEBCAAuFiEE3Si95tmHXKvOSosd3M8NswvBBUgFAmT/pGAQHGFy bmVfYmFiQHdlYi5kZQAKCRDczw2zC8EFSEUMA/0Y9+/x/x04FOrBKcwek/GdwfdJ 8vJ/MXZVN0LlOqgAFQniw0VppwyZLRFqZsLvrDFpf5CT3dBUDE/Le7Iw+KFvDO59 cSb0A9ouj9e0lVFd0gQKl/UNg7x48hVwlte8isFhrH4A8vs2NurJ0Sq7DyJDE+1o XYKBUr+rmeAmEDTUjQ== =NF+6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--