From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: taylanbayirli@gmail.com (Taylan Ulrich =?utf-8?Q?Bay=C4=B1rl=C4=B1?= =?utf-8?Q?=2FKammer?=) Subject: Re: Free firmware - A redefinition of the term and a new metric for it's measurement. Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2017 18:40:01 +0100 Message-ID: <87tw8bjhqm.fsf@gmail.com> References: Reply-To: Workgroup for fully free GNU/Linux distributions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Return-path: In-Reply-To: (David Craven's message of "Fri, 3 Feb 2017 15:37:32 +0100") List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: gnu-linux-libre-bounces+gldg-gnu-linux-libre=m.gmane.org@nongnu.org Sender: "gnu-linux-libre" To: David Craven Cc: guix-devel , gnu-linux-libre@nongnu.org List-Id: guix-devel.gnu.org David Craven writes: > Solution: > We need to encourage and allow option 1 as opposed to option 2. > Hardware suggestions by the FSF should instead of focusing on a black > and white - needs binary blobs or does not need binary blobs - focus > on the following: > > 1. The firmware is freely redistributeable - allowing free software > distributions to redistribute the firmware as opposed to the user > having to download the firmware themselves and accept arbitrary terms > and conditions. Being freely redistributeable doesn't make a blob free software obviously, so endorsing such blobs would be out of the question as per the core principles of the FSF. Correct me if I misunderstand. > 2. The firmware can be loaded using the standard kernel api and the > device does not contain any internal storage. Sounds good. Having non-free software hidden within a hardware device is obviously no better than having the OS insert it there whenever the device is connected, as per the reasons you explained. (Assuming I understood it correctly that that's how it normally works; I'm a hardware noob. I actually thought firmware blobs are just code loaded into kernel space, like drivers. Embarrassing?) > 3. There is documentation available that enables the developement of > free firmware. Definitely yes. If I understand the situation correctly, I definitely agree that the FSF should stop being blind to proprietary software hidden within hardware devices in their endorsements. Such devices should be discouraged. But the FSF would never endorse any other proprietary software / binary blobs either, if I know anything about their principles. :-) (And I agree with those principles, to be clear.) Thanks for raising this issue. I had not heard of the trend of putting proprietary firmware directly into flash storage on hardware devices to give the illusion that they don't require binary blobs to run. Taylan