From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Chris Marusich Subject: Re: Services and log management/monitoring Date: Sat, 04 May 2019 01:24:14 -0700 Message-ID: <87tvea4ogh.fsf@gmail.com> References: <67f09d8d-3ca6-90a0-6e72-c85ec9d1572f@s.rendaw.me> <87bm1472ha.fsf@gnu.org> <4428ea68-57fe-5459-0e26-529bc05d0b31@s.rendaw.me> <87imvaci2p.fsf@gnu.org> <8736lu66vd.fsf@gmail.com> <1a06849a-e399-47d9-e68a-e688fd72f435@s.rendaw.me> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41620) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hMpy3-0003dv-Df for help-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 04 May 2019 04:24:24 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hMpy2-0001rn-7A for help-guix@gnu.org; Sat, 04 May 2019 04:24:23 -0400 In-Reply-To: <1a06849a-e399-47d9-e68a-e688fd72f435@s.rendaw.me> (rendaw's message of "Sat, 4 May 2019 17:01:45 +0900") List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-guix-bounces+gcggh-help-guix=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Help-Guix" To: rendaw <7e9wc56emjakcm@s.rendaw.me> Cc: help-guix@gnu.org --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable rendaw <7e9wc56emjakcm@s.rendaw.me> writes: > I've written up something similar here: > https://gitlab.com/rendaw/blog/blob/master/how_to_guix_for_those_who_dont= .md Nice! Thank you for sharing it. > I think it would be great to have this information in the > documentation! I agree, but I am not sure how to merge the important parts with the documentation in a way that does not clutter it up and make it even more confusing than it already is. > I'd also elaborate on what actually happens in the end > ("If every service just extends other services, what does the root > service do?"), how stuff actually runs (since operating systems are > processes and not data after all -> I think the answer is that the boot > service, activation service, and shepherd service all run processes but > that leads to a lot of other obvious questions: what's the difference > between the boot and activation services - or what do each do and what > makes them suitable for those tasks, what order are processes started in > each of them, how does guix deal with existing files created by > activation processes when reconfiguring the system, etc), what is a > service vs a service type, and an explanation of the folding process and > how it relates to a service type definition. Yes, explaining this could make for a good manual section or blog post. >> The manual section is helpful > > I strongly believe the manual section is not helpful to anyone who > doesn't already know how Guix works. It's true that we could do a better job of introducing services in the manual. > Reading the source code is a colossal hurdle for users I think this statement is perhaps over-broad, since "reading the source" can mean "reading an operating system configuration file," which is definitely easier than understanding Guix's services. That said, I agree that users shouldn't have to grok fold-services just to understand how to use services in their operating system configuration. The manual tries to explain services, but it just doesn't get the job done, and we should improve it. > I hope this doesn't come off too aggressive. I don't think it does, and I appreciate hearing your opinion. I actually felt exactly the same way as you, when I was first learning about services. It was frustrating. As I learned, I submitted patches to change the documentation where it was unclear or incorrect. But it still isn't good enough. I've been thinking about trying to rewrite that section in a way that makes it easier to understand services for a first-time reader, but I haven't yet done it. If you have ideas about how to improve the documentation, please consider submitting a patch. Coding can be hard, but so can documentation. Every little improvement can help! =2D-=20 Chris --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEy/WXVcvn5+/vGD+x3UCaFdgiRp0FAlzNTC8ACgkQ3UCaFdgi Rp2DBA/+MJD2YlxOjGqN9k9WYCEJ+BUl400E55XDDT4Z3A6SyCK68Wng9UrGYxjX xI/KF2LQ5ZgeyQ5W4EaeW2YgqgoYb+jakH3/x+dSrjxVJfiLJPVqBV0CI7Qv+ZYG JQMvCb58KIqLS0bDQMYw8R8eONNrsXBACy5YgA0Md4pI7H3Ijbpircz63Mcl13PT ZIiskPn/J7iQIMajdZtqlILhKnB3nLsYqI3Pb8KpN34itudHREA2kK1cvhBFzUtU BBIomNz3yiMD1rh2+JbHw4yOu8Rw8YXNX/4qAeBhvCCvYVLJXAxJ29b2N5V57g6j 01s0+EljgXBKDwF/eBEtvu6kB92rC9Wyw1k0LSm+0IttVNTksDpwdnv2yDJ7Pm0E GnF3uOxzoA2am/VXighjBVWyoGUu2ABGb0pgFygpHKgVEr5+BDgwRIsOqmAnekqH 6xv3Y3YCA5QSUdKoHbcOGNGLcIWUpJYAzgidzfjVs+fuNnE7+fV1vV7RMtibBTC4 4GB7nTPM9qGJVbzhmkeoiFzINbvKe3+VJ8WGaL6yR+VQwmF06WL7P2g/Zk6iGYUK FcLkHychwAXVQhhkN051Lz2gWumPnW1kuCkvkK971ifKm0m3lvv0jbmGWug2NMYq XL6vy9esrQ4FdqxvLgzKWDC57Re5vq+rScMFe0hC7WAMsTohsIY= =Xomi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--