From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id qMd9EoQLkF9RHAAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 10:20:52 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id qFRADoQLkF/+DgAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 10:20:52 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 095ED9402A2 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 10:20:52 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:48160 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kVBEh-0006VB-12 for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 06:20:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42972) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kVBEZ-0006Uh-6B for guix-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 06:20:43 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:45584) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kVBEY-0004zW-Fo; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 06:20:42 -0400 Received: from [2a01:e0a:1d:7270:af76:b9b:ca24:c465] (port=43170 helo=ribbon) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1kVBEW-0002sb-Q6; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 06:20:42 -0400 From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= To: Andreas Enge Subject: Re: Using #true and #false everywhere? References: <875z7a78ww.fsf@gnu.org> <20201020103244.GB6805@jurong> X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 30 =?utf-8?Q?Vend=C3=A9miaire?= an 229 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0x090B11993D9AEBB5 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 3CE4 6455 8A84 FDC6 9DB4 0CFB 090B 1199 3D9A EBB5 X-OS: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 12:20:38 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20201020103244.GB6805@jurong> (Andreas Enge's message of "Tue, 20 Oct 2020 12:32:44 +0200") Message-ID: <87r1pr6ft5.fsf@gnu.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Scanner: scn0 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.51 X-TUID: oTUr22EVoLHE Hi, Andreas Enge skribis: > On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 12:38:23PM +0200, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: >> As discussed on IRC recently, several of us think that using =E2=80=9C#t= rue=E2=80=9D and >> =E2=80=9C#false=E2=80=9D instead of =E2=80=9C#t=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9C#f= =E2=80=9D throughout or documentation and code >> would probably make it easier for newcomers to decipher that. > > Honestly, I think either of them is sufficiently easy to understand, in t= he > presence of much more difficult questions: Writing #true instead of #t will not make the language immediately obvious to everyone. You=E2=80=99re right about those other pitfalls. To me it=E2=80=99s really about the height of the barrier to entry: I view = this change as a simple way to lower it by a bit. I did hear comments from newcomers who just wanted to package something and stared at those #t/#f wondering what it could mean. Vagrant shared a similar experience. There=E2=80=99s a convention in Scheme to spell things out for clarity, even =E2=80=98call-with-current-continuation=E2=80=99. I do think it helps a gr= eat deal make code more intelligible. #t/#f are an exception to that rule. > - What are quotes, quasiquotes, unquotes? How do they relate to code stag= ing > in Guix? (This is to me the most difficult part of Guix code, in partic= ular > for someone coming from a language where code is code and data are data= .) There are examples of quote/unquote at , there=E2=80=99s also a discussion of code staging at , but I gather it=E2=80=99s hard to grasp. If you have suggestions on how to improve documentation on these topics, I=E2=80=99m all ears! Recently I=E2=80=99ve been working on the manual in the spirit of making it easier to get started using the Scheme APIs, for packaging in particular, and what we=E2=80=99re discussing here goes in the same directi= on. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.