From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id aCiZAxAcYmB2FgEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:27:28 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id ANs7OQ8cYmCUYQAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:27:27 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A57E997DB for ; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 20:27:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:35214 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lQwbm-0003vW-NP for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:27:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52504) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lQwbP-0003p2-8F for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:27:03 -0400 Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:38006) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lQwbO-0005TF-W8 for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:27:03 -0400 Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQwbO-0008VP-T0 for guix-patches@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:27:02 -0400 Subject: bug#45359: bug#47458: Terrible UX upgrading Emacs in Guix Resent-From: Maxim Cournoyer Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-To: guix-patches@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:27:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: cc-closed 45359 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix-patches X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: Mark H Weaver , 45359-done@debbugs.gnu.org, 47458@debbugs.gnu.org Mail-Followup-To: 45359@debbugs.gnu.org, maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com, maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com Received: via spool by 45359-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D45359.161704236132600 (code D ref 45359); Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:27:02 +0000 Received: (at 45359-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Mar 2021 18:26:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49547 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQwaP-0008Te-7o for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:26:01 -0400 Received: from mail-qk1-f180.google.com ([209.85.222.180]:34718) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1lQwaN-0008TN-Gj; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:26:00 -0400 Received: by mail-qk1-f180.google.com with SMTP id g20so13390949qkk.1; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:25:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Nm257ZyuwDgKW8r75S/i/9ff4bfjtdbWhUQ67xX4jvA=; b=Zeqn4MVzHZi7R4vrf+/7awsuNFHp57dV4nsLzothZn1o2qd8fEbmjyuGmI2BwCWuvK m6L3eNhNpDKlZynF97LpeQPg+ItZQBIBnOsD/6wOabZD7qAsbRxnz86sKA4qYwLMco1E mGnhXS9HN/0ywJkXbvCa8ywIf6I8PHJQv9tZnnDk4t3nuSC4ULHuMN7GZ+7lXlOPxckX LiH90fZs4dmYQ/6uo213xcR20W8nnCjnt1P42cgX32uUWgDlOJGD4loWy6KFg/lleAaS WaZo1rDDqn0N4ZbIopwFdWtXrG0wcAsz4EkZkiUXE4G8qBfSRAFUzzlN91KEh6zMfMiA w1OQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Nm257ZyuwDgKW8r75S/i/9ff4bfjtdbWhUQ67xX4jvA=; b=AbbrrpJvqQqxlYe8NsZZtbZnIcXnQYPXdHnSBnskal+c9i3BqKW5Co81Zu1XaPlWuy 5gSsSa6oDd9LiMGWMOYjNgYgZTgk073NhrFG9laAzQvRHHrFNBIjCUvzQoZDKAi7ZobD pcOrPIATDw/gslMm4G0aGGLN5wLeA5I4AfYthnuhzZ92Zw/EoECSdZqdpA3PrJyCARXY 5TmzIe/j2H6v/458c4Xiev29HGa1XbDp2gATAWu9l0Ot59vQGK1q7bb82sEEw75aEN/A BgaNnC0fezrlOHJO0dGLC4C0HvN1yISyj6FO9kg01iijoAHRA0UsFtzhL3t7Og3cZIZc U2rA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532UkPiGn9ouSoqd0D1m2bWTCQBZI7X94CyMHvClPFJL44w7r843 9gWdkKhgmy0BTjH+KvPBB7ocyYpw4HkV0A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyOu+r305KxXfBzOuFwjo53YEVrcWkWIgNcR+lwXaqfiTn8WoRpciV7hEYsH74z0mQSqgkwhg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:38f:: with SMTP id q15mr26471885qkm.379.1617042353738; Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hurd (dsl-155-113.b2b2c.ca. [66.158.155.113]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i78sm13718130qke.46.2021.03.29.11.25.53 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:25:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer References: <87o8f23eew.fsf@netris.org> <87blb2nedp.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:25:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87blb2nedp.fsf@gnu.org> ("Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?="'s message of "Mon, 29 Mar 2021 17:55:30 +0200") Message-ID: <87r1jxbyvj.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.1 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: guix-patches@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-patches" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1617042447; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding:resent-to: resent-from:resent-sender:resent-message-id:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Nm257ZyuwDgKW8r75S/i/9ff4bfjtdbWhUQ67xX4jvA=; b=SzsBfhkwivlB1cC4wwNN6a99lEyV1EhYpKxs18dJHdA7QSJ56SYGER1F7cEUMDPyKL0L6z Cc44Ug1Grwk1IryS/bYEHReJa3Yw+AqSAL9JMUwa67FRTGzhnGF+3PZ5Sy/vx7g1PWd1xE 0ix4L6h0WVbM4QJS/JNlk6A1S5/tjtEpTixfKY0rz5tbNrYn4VfyYmPBmXa9ulS36ITYNz DFqYlLD1ENRo19bk/qOfnSs4FgB4TbMkF5JShHpHWLqPUoTddcHhvRJrawK9KdaUH4qLlN 3VZVJ7wRBi4mOp7Q417TaHkHWYwIPoTPwO1VCFCsEdugWWpzn6kYkQ0AJ9kznQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1617042447; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=lU9DouqIgZtqVuMvbFA6S0fXIY4FA9M6RgtoJhhC7LINETW9D9DVQFtY3YdQEleHZfIcSW WKQZ2bh9vlH1cYmaiEVLERAhvc1CqEsev4dwRXpFyxARdMTmoLAWjfG/aB7zpEeRqcIkAT 8ZK6JjKciSfeKnr2bgILjVQM3NX+tZFZuicPKf3O3vhIndb0fcDmTMfrSJNXdAZ8sCcbSt go3rJRzS8ugdRcoHp1urnvyObe7RiDa5sWiw3CbcnVdzYXrQlKQ67uRwcfoEvBtTOhnFL+ BXwysn/Ied8Eb8LUIzDUw26ScQ/tbViUEeaM0kbDcBLsAi4Rcg3CQJ1NysX80A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Zeqn4MVz; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.32 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Zeqn4MVz; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-patches-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: A57E997DB X-Spam-Score: -1.32 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: RqKutWWJUiO9 Hi, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > Hi Mark, > > Mark H Weaver skribis: > >> Eventually, I realized what the problem was: >> >> (1) My existing emacs session started failing because >> ~/.guix-profile/share/emacs/27.1 had disappeared out from under it. >> >> (2) My newly launched emacs sessions were failing because my >> EMACSLOADPATH variable was still set to its old value, pointing at >> /home/mhw/.guix-profile/share/emacs/27.1/lisp, which no longer >> existed. >> >> I'm not sure why I've never run into this problem before. I'm also not >> sure what can be done to make this better, but if anyone has ideas, that >> would be good. If a 7+ year Guix veteran developer gets bitten badly by >> this, I doubt that less experienced users will be impressed. > > Ouch. =E2=80=9CIt used to be=E2=80=9D (speaking like a veteran :-)) that= Emacs in Guix > would not use EMACSLOADPATH. Then we switched to EMACSLOADPATH, which > had some advantages, but necessarily has this drawback. > > IIUC, is about possibly > backtracking. Maxim, what=E2=80=99s the status of this one? It's abandoned, The MUMI tracker lacks the responses from Leo Prickler, but they had good arguments maintaining the status quo rather than going with the extra complexity. It also wouldn't change the issue at hand; it'd merely prevent conflicts of *resources* files of Emacs packages (and somewhat integrate with the Emacs native package manager, while making the autoloading a bit slower). It seems the price to pay is too high for such a small gain. I'm closing it now. On the other hand, this very problem was the motivation for this patch series here: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/43627, which would solve the issue ta hand. You were skeptical of the benefits the last time you took a look at it; perhaps it's time to take a new look at it :-). Thanks, Maxim