* Freenode Administration
@ 2021-05-19 17:54 Bone Baboon
2021-05-20 5:40 ` Bone Baboon
` (3 more replies)
0 siblings, 4 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Bone Baboon @ 2021-05-19 17:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: guix-devel
I received this message on Freenode:
```
-jess- [Global Notice] Hi all. It feels like my moral responsibility
to inform all users that administrative control of freenode and
its user data will soon change hands, and I will be resigning from
freenode staff effective immediately. It's been an honour to help
you all.
```
Below are some resignation letters I have seen.
I think this event presents an opportunity for reassessment of
<https://guix.gnu.org/en/contact/irc/>. Two interesting areas to
explore are Freenode alternatives and IRC alternatives / compliments.
# Freenode Alternatives
Here are some Freenode alternative questions I have:
Will Guix continue to use Freenode?
Will Guix create #guix channels on other IRC networks? (Several of the
resignation letters refer to <https://libera.chat/>)
Will Guix start it's own IRC server(s)?
# IRC alternatives / compliments
Some criteria that I have come up with are:
* Free software
* Can be used without a graphical user interface as many GPUs are not
compatible with Linux-libre and can not run Xorg or Wayland window
managers / desktops.
* Peer to peer as a way to avoid the issue of a centralized
administrator changing their administration in undesirable ways.
Some alternatives that come to mind that would need further
investigation include the following. I do not know if any of these meet
all the criteria I mention above.
* Scuttlebutt
** https://scuttlebutt.nz/
** Is there a client that works without a graphical environment?
* DAT
** Are there messaging application for DAT?
** https://www.datprotocol.com/
* IPFS
** Are there messaging application for IPFS?
** https://ipfs.io/
* Jami
** https://jami.net/
** Swarms specifically
*** https://jami.net/swarm-introducing-a-new-generation-of-group-conversations/
*** Swarms are fully distributed and peer-to-peer text conversations,
with a potentially unlimited number of participants.
** <Lutices[m]> on Freenode #jami said:
"https://github.com/AmarOk1412/jami-cli/ no video/audio support but
support swarm"
* RetroShare
** http://retroshare.cc/
** Is there a client that works without a graphical environment?
# Resignation Letter
These are some of the resignation letters I have seen.
https://www.kline.sh/
https://swantzter.se/freenode-resignation/
https://coevoet.fr/freenode.html
https://mniip.com/freenode.txt
https://blog.bofh.it/debian/id_461
https://gist.github.com/JonathanD82/6518b93708e0aaf4b8f92c8e7200816d
https://gist.github.com/jesopo/45a3e9cdbe517dc55e6058eb43b00ed9
https://gist.github.com/pinkisemils/39d4ded8b1639b6f39dcab15618649f5
https://gist.github.com/edk0/478fb4351bc3ba458288d6878032669d
https://fuchsnet.ch/privat/fn-resign-letter.txt
This is an open letter <https://gist.github.com/shadowcat-mst/998cea12794768bdb3da2daeff31baad>.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread* Re: Freenode Administration
2021-05-19 17:54 Freenode Administration Bone Baboon
@ 2021-05-20 5:40 ` Bone Baboon
2021-05-22 23:48 ` raingloom
2021-05-25 22:36 ` Bone Baboon
2021-05-20 8:29 ` François
` (2 subsequent siblings)
3 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Bone Baboon @ 2021-05-20 5:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bone Baboon; +Cc: guix-devel
Bone Baboon writes:
> # IRC alternatives / compliments
>
> Some criteria that I have come up with are:
> * Free software
> * Can be used without a graphical user interface as many GPUs are not
> compatible with Linux-libre and can not run Xorg or Wayland window
> managers / desktops.
> * Peer to peer as a way to avoid the issue of a centralized
> administrator changing their administration in undesirable ways.
One more criteria. Is an Emacs client available. Inspired by
<https://logs.guix.gnu.org/guix/2021-05-19.log#183825>.
> Some alternatives that come to mind that would need further
> investigation include the following. I do not know if any of these meet
> all the criteria I mention above.
>
> * Scuttlebutt
> ** https://scuttlebutt.nz/
> ** Is there a client that works without a graphical environment?
>
> * DAT
> ** Are there messaging application for DAT?
> ** https://www.datprotocol.com/
>
> * IPFS
> ** Are there messaging application for IPFS?
> ** https://ipfs.io/
>
> * Jami
> ** https://jami.net/
> ** Swarms specifically
> *** https://jami.net/swarm-introducing-a-new-generation-of-group-conversations/
> *** Swarms are fully distributed and peer-to-peer text conversations,
> with a potentially unlimited number of participants.
> ** <Lutices[m]> on Freenode #jami said:
> "https://github.com/AmarOk1412/jami-cli/ no video/audio support but
> support swarm"
>
> * RetroShare
> ** http://retroshare.cc/
> ** Is there a client that works without a graphical environment?
Here is what I have discovered after some further preliminary
exploration. I have added XMPP and Tox.
## Scuttlebutt
<https://scuttlebutt.nz/>
* Free libre - yes
* Peer to peer - yes
* Non graphical client - yes
** scat <https://github.com/stripedpajamas/scat>
** scatzero <https://github.com/stripedpajamas/scatzero>
** scuttle-chat <https://github.com/clevinson/scuttle-chat>
* IRC capabilities - ?
* Emacs client - no
## DAT
<https://www.datprotocol.com/>
* Free libre - yes
* Peer to peer - yes
* Non graphical client - yes
** cabal-cli <https://github.com/cabal-club/cabal-cli>
* IRC capabilities - yes
** <https://cabal.chat/>
* Emacs client - no
## IPFS
<https://ipfs.io/>
* Free libre - yes
* Peer to peer - yes
* Non graphical client - prototype
** orbit-textui <https://github.com/orbitdb/orbit-textui>
*** prototype
* IRC capabilities - ?
* Emacs client - no
## Jami
<https://jami.net/>
* Free libre - yes
* Peer to peer - yes
* Non graphical client - yes
** jami-cli <https://github.com/AmarOk1412/jami-cli>
* IRC capabilities - not yet
** Swarm requires more optimizations before pubic channels are added.
** Currently jami-cli has been tested for group of 5 (jami-cli's
developer devices).
** A group is invite only currently.
* Emacs client - no
## RetroShare
<https://retroshare.cc/>
* Free libre - yes
* Peer to peer - yes
* Non graphical client - no
* IRC capabilities - yes
* Emacs client - no
## XMPP
<https://xmpp.org/>
* Free libre - yes
* Peer to peer - no
** federated servers
* Non graphical client - yes
** Mcabber <https://mcabber.com/>
** Poezio <https://poez.io/en/>
** Profanity <https://profanity-im.github.io/>
** Aparte <https://github.com/paulfariello/aparte>
* IRC capabilities - yes
* Emacs client - yes
** jabber.el <https://github.com/legoscia/emacs-jabber>
## Tox
<https://tox.chat/>
* Free libre - yes
* Peer to peer - yes
* Non graphical client - yes
** Toxic <https://github.com/JFreegman/toxic>
* IRC capabilities - not currently
** Would get IRC capabilities if this gets added
<https://github.com/TokTok/c-toxcore/blob/ngc/docs/DHT-Group-Chats.md>
* Emacs client - no
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread* Re: Freenode Administration
2021-05-19 17:54 Freenode Administration Bone Baboon
2021-05-20 5:40 ` Bone Baboon
@ 2021-05-20 8:29 ` François
2021-05-21 16:28 ` Bone Baboon
2021-05-20 10:26 ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
2021-05-27 14:33 ` Bone Baboon
3 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: François @ 2021-05-20 8:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bone Baboon; +Cc: guix-devel
Hello,
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 01:54:45PM -0400, Bone Baboon wrote:
> Will Guix continue to use Freenode?
>
> Will Guix create #guix channels on other IRC networks? (Several of the
> resignation letters refer to <https://libera.chat/>)
The channel #guix will probably continue to exist on Freenode but most
users are switching to libera.chat.
As we talk the logs on http://logs.guix.gnu.org/guix are now those of
#guix on libera.chat
I have the feeling that the Guix website will be updated soon to reflect
this move.
> Will Guix start it's own IRC server(s)?
It is not an option discussed and I think it would be a misplacement of
Guix scarce resources.
> # IRC alternatives / compliments
On alternatives you missed Matrix[1] which is federated (like email)
and have several clients includig weechat for text-based interface.
Several people (and I am one of them) already uses Matrix clients to
access IRC networks with bridges (which libera.chat does not already
have but work is in progress).
There is even some ongoing work ([2], [3]) on making Matrix more
peer-to-peer but it is still completely experimental.
[1]: https://matrix.org
[2]: https://matrix.org/blog/2021/05/06/introducing-the-pinecone-overlay-network
[3]: https://matrix.org/blog/2020/06/02/introducing-p-2-p-matrix
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Freenode Administration
2021-05-19 17:54 Freenode Administration Bone Baboon
2021-05-20 5:40 ` Bone Baboon
2021-05-20 8:29 ` François
@ 2021-05-20 10:26 ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
2021-05-27 14:33 ` Bone Baboon
3 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice @ 2021-05-20 10:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bone Baboon; +Cc: guix-devel
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Hi Bone,
Bone Baboon 写道：
> Will Guix continue to use Freenode?
No. #guix is now on Libera Chat[0], the new name of what was
‘Freenode’ before yesterday's hostile takeover of the freenode.net
infra.
I updated the docs and the Web site yesterday. It probably took a
while to refresh.
Many thanks to Taylan for grabbing Libera's #guix before squatters
could and for giving us administrative access. I've applied for
more official ‘project’ status like we had at old Freenode.
The old #guix channel still exists. Users will see the new
network name advertised in the /topic and ENTRYMSG if supported by
their client, but I don't plan on ‘closing’ it unless it becomes a
problem somehow.
> Will Guix create #guix channels on other IRC networks? (Several
> of the
> resignation letters refer to <https://libera.chat/>)
Over the years multiple authors of those letters have been
extremely helpful, responsive, and downright friendly to me
whenever I bothered them with my noob questions. It never felt
like I was talking to overworked volunteers. I didn't hesitate
for a moment to trust their judgment.
> Will Guix start it's own IRC server(s)?
François is right: starting and running an IRC server is a serious
commitment, not something you do on Sundays. Leave it to
competent people who are passionate about doing their thing well.
Don't get me wrong: I <3 self-hosting. Perhaps we can host one of
the mentioned IRC alternatives, but I urge anyone volunteering:
bridge it with IRC so's not to split the community further.
Kind regards,
T G-R
[0]: https://libera.chat/
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Freenode Administration
2021-05-19 17:54 Freenode Administration Bone Baboon
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2021-05-20 10:26 ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
@ 2021-05-27 14:33 ` Bone Baboon
3 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Bone Baboon @ 2021-05-27 14:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bone Baboon; +Cc: guix-devel
Bone Baboon writes:
> # IRC alternatives / compliments
>
> Some criteria that I have come up with are:
> * Free software
> * Can be used without a graphical user interface as many GPUs are not
> compatible with Linux-libre and can not run Xorg or Wayland window
> managers / desktops.
> * Peer to peer as a way to avoid the issue of a centralized
> administrator changing their administration in undesirable ways.
Here is one more criteria. This would be important if being inclusive
of a diverse group of people is desirable.
* Works with slow and low bandwidth internet connections.
Some examples are dial up modems, mesh networks and satellite.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
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2021-05-19 17:54 Freenode Administration Bone Baboon
2021-05-20 5:40 ` Bone Baboon
2021-05-22 23:48 ` raingloom
2021-05-26 2:43 ` Bone Baboon
2021-05-25 22:36 ` Bone Baboon
2021-05-20 8:29 ` François
2021-05-21 16:28 ` Bone Baboon
2021-05-25 22:52 ` Bone Baboon
2021-05-20 10:26 ` Tobias Geerinckx-Rice
2021-05-27 14:33 ` Bone Baboon
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