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[172.221.246.205]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b9sm1601198ilo.38.2021.10.28.07.57.10 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 28 Oct 2021 07:57:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Katherine Cox-Buday To: zimoun Subject: Re: Incentives for review References: <874k9if7am.fsf@inria.fr> <86ee8hfm1k.fsf@gmail.com> <87sfwx896z.fsf@inria.fr> <86k0i9drh5.fsf@gmail.com> <87mtn56mzg.fsf_-_@inria.fr> <87cznyfmcb.fsf@gmail.com> <86czny13ac.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2021 09:57:09 -0500 In-Reply-To: <86czny13ac.fsf@gmail.com> (zimoun's message of "Thu, 21 Oct 2021 23:22:35 +0200") Message-ID: <87pmrp9oze.fsf@gmail.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::129; envelope-from=cox.katherine.e@gmail.com; helo=mail-il1-x129.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -1 X-Spam_score: -0.2 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.2 / 5.0 requ) DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Guix-devel" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1635433073; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=CfYR9zg9Pixh723VqGp7N6wa9OLlF1y7gHf5zibEWyk=; b=YYKhNBs3Bzz9qiUYUfIKKdAxKHyoK+UBvyfbnWcvGWCzdduF5a4pEKDZ5bNgc7Fxao/FcI DHBx5ESghkMUFVeY4UonLvegb71tSp/Q/Wo9lgLH2dHGgtNcojeo+UBXECYzsRL6eIpyKw DHeblUvZ0m+VzQQ1Gqk+gfZ7AvvZVrYpUukUm74WFhLm47OMmx443+urXNgVnJHVtAEJq2 BDU3C/Zdy8QlvES5o03om64UtDgwNvfZZHFN7K+F2AywkRxLvMBA6tHugoWCxGSnrLZf2I A7A71loH0rcxNzXE7hzydzPQCNjxyyGF8GrR6fh08F6saCEnPxl59pZIP/akcw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1635433073; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=fGDWc6N10TIedpCA4qMyQ7f7pG+RbCrKUmncy8tULhsBKHM8WRIWFVmlGumjn+OPPcr1ZF ncrhzkLcIeGLYGvoBH2+XpaD33LUrTzj1QdxXCRK/YSLcd8NlfU/YKJSbPqQ6J46B9PpFG mr4fz8R2jSIPFo6uRAasZ3lrspM8UK1At/JALdmg/pawP9LUIIS+/dN6CCYPZs4TGe96pG Id1bGBycl249fXcTRaL0rV2ELiBz7xBcu/7QDGnKCh9f6r6feEbTx+MaAygIEczGzB6SXL wfM59eRF2NjbxTAlaN/tAqqmTJ8CPgeqflQIdTMdhrAWcSCUKQVG8flPJxOWpg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=aw5WZ7Rf; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.33 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=aw5WZ7Rf; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=guix-devel-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: BEEE133073 X-Spam-Score: -1.33 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: ZKuZM0dJgIqk zimoun writes: >> I have often seen folks on various projects worried about the size of >> various backlogs: bugs, issues, etc. I think it is human to want to >> try and contain something that appears to be growing, unbounded.=20 > > =E2=80=A6about patches only. Bug is another story. :-) Sorry, I meant to speak to both and instead repeated bugs with a different = word, issues! I think patches and bugs are similar in this context. > Just number to fix the idea about large backlog. I think it's really great that you went through the trouble to quantify thi= s. Thank you. >> I think the thing that bothers us is a sense that the backlog is >> becoming unmanageable, or too large to triage. I submit that this is >> actually a tooling and organizational issue, and not an intrinsic >> issue to be solved. Bugs may still be valid; patches may still have >> valuable bones to modify. > > This is the point. What do you do? What could we improve about tooling > and organisation to better scale and deal with this =E2=80=9Cbecoming > unmanageable backlog=E2=80=9D? I tried to give some ideas here[1]. > From my point of view, it is good to have this issue. It means that > Guix is becoming more popular. And we =E2=80=93 regular user, contributo= r, > committer =E2=80=93 have to adapt to this increasing workload, IMHO. I totally agree! > The question is how. And how to invite people to complete review. :-) Humans usually enjoy community. I think the group activities are really gre= at. >> I think the real issue is that as a backlog grows, the tools we're >> used to using cannot answer the questions we want to ask: what is most >> relevant to me or the project right now? > > If it is relevant to the project then it is also relevant to me as an > user. And vice-versa. ;-) I think I did not give the proper context. I meant relevant as in "I am wor= king on this package. Is anyone else? What tickets might I update? What oth= er trivial bugs might I fix while I'm looking at this?" I.e. relevant in the temporal sense. > When something relevant to me is not making progress, it often means > people are busy elsewhere, so I try to comment (review?) about patches > or bugs. It is a Sisyphean task because the workload never > decreases. :-) Or maybe structured procrastination. ;-) I find it helpful to not think of it as a discrete task, but work along a c= ontinuum -- a joyful habit of collectively helping everyone to have somethi= ng nice :) "A society grows great when old (wo)men plant trees whose shade they know t= hey shall never sit in." [1] - https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2021-10/msg00158.html --=20 Katherine