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Resent-From: Simon Tournier Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: guix-patches@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 13:57:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 66436 X-GNU-PR-Package: guix-patches X-GNU-PR-Keywords: patch To: Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , Maxim Cournoyer Cc: 66436@debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 66436-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B66436.169824220813517 (code B ref 66436); Wed, 25 Oct 2023 13:57:01 +0000 Received: (at 66436) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Oct 2023 13:56:48 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59710 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qveNM-0003Vx-BF for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 09:56:48 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-x336.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::336]:39994) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qveNH-0003Vn-BW for 66436@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 09:56:46 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-x336.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-408434ce195so14259635e9.0 for <66436@debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 06:56:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1698242167; x=1698846967; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=KM7BSEdQ0QxuZmQu6dXGQy+iDimH8K/cJEmEL5lEfzg=; b=kdfnyG9dYMi1dnEs+XTiH5rdaSIjqlAiY0vMLHAymmNSjdFNc2Luu76f/nOkMHoHcI SRDUGQll8qTYPC2KE6nZf9+D3lWhzGVjYkRiLyDa7nkmvCnT4/TYdGlV5gmTOgbJlaQH aD2QXlzkZOeTO7ZwXsfuJnOvz1Pfdm+5N8bO0Nga0eG1yxErMVNkIT3ctU3UoBdlf0rj nyxhrsVeOSX/alYCgWwSLXW+buhS+/P3YCKtuXVWJfBjbpQ81IqUDWN6wiTSNb3zZ6AA KHgD6SKpxColpadWkW7XLSUfzwieaWjv57N20vs0L+rIF9dp0hSNxnlFitq9ANQYrPoz +Cvg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1698242167; x=1698846967; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:message-id:date:references :in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=KM7BSEdQ0QxuZmQu6dXGQy+iDimH8K/cJEmEL5lEfzg=; b=IWh2aeduscXSYfINGDQssgllBc2HSXXZy/uO/JRylTUYHITnZvIE9r05DpDAG5CUDc DZK35KhFiKDYzQo4Vh4pdwuMJ6fGu4lxfu26jPuTQaG4x5Pev3fg7Y55iwJZ71z9Ygkm JiK9FVydm583q/oSR7JeDlKLJ83df9nV4OhFjPSE10Rfuc0J89tPK8VPbuFfdbM5S+cq oXH1FD6zOqD61FNYlK67aCp/or3n9kxpFRfqel+qBm448OQAyOBLAZmrXjuRlHra72xx /ejHI7ofiE1SWA0ZXYgH+vXfJhzJvIWYN2lWJEk4z3z4GdgJ1XUqsMqZrHqbD7nsVo32 qLrg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwFqTqep1tJkK+kkTneNIvC7Z90M6BP9oPp/aid8MqDpKeicQTQ yrtEA5y17OXECCln7RW9Hp/p+1f2qkU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IESh+VhOpU+5Z+3e8Lq5ykj53AyGQVQXumMEW3jyeV5CTy6powOWAucjUHXcCp7YFRxSscP2g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4c17:b0:405:358c:ba75 with SMTP id d23-20020a05600c4c1700b00405358cba75mr11710551wmp.0.1698242166799; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 06:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pfiuh07 ([193.48.40.241]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j13-20020a5d452d000000b0032d8eecf901sm12209937wra.3.2023.10.25.06.56.06 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 25 Oct 2023 06:56:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Simon Tournier In-Reply-To: <87a5s86mos.fsf@gnu.org> References: <19f82d9bbef649c750ad067d23ebbaee6f9ae494.1696942467.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <0a5e027af3c0b61f9ab9f3c66e73b7a769eef7fd.1696983695.git.maxim.cournoyer@gmail.com> <87a5s86mos.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 15:53:04 +0200 Message-ID: <87o7gmhkqn.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: guix-patches@gnu.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-patches-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Scanner: mx2.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 2.90 X-Spam-Score: 2.90 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: CB0854143B X-TUID: 0N2Sc/YzFdes Hi On Tue, 24 Oct 2023 at 17:54, Ludovic Court=C3=A8s wrote: >> +@item >> +@emph{Remain focused: do not change the scope of the work being >> +reviewed.} For example, if the contribution touches code that follows a >> +pattern deemed unwieldy, it would be unfair to ask the submitter to fix >> +all occurrences of that pattern in the code; to put it simply, if a >> +problem unrelated to the patch at hand was already there, do not ask the >> +submitter to fix it. For me this item is clear=E2=80=A6 > Another item came to mind, that could be phrased like this: =E2=80=A6while this new is unclear=E2=80=A6 > Spend time proportional to the stakes. Ensure the discussion focuses > on important aspects of the changes; do not let it be derailed by > objectively unimportant issues@footnote{This situation is often > referred to as ``bikeshedding'', where much time is spent discussing > each one's preference for the color of the shed at the expense > progress made on the project to keep bikes dry.}. In particular, > issues such as code formatting and other conventions can be dealt with > through automation---e.g., @command{guix lint} and @command{guix > style}---or through documentation (@pxref{Packaging Guidelines}, as an > example). =E2=80=A6especially in the light of these other items: +@item +@emph{Review is a discussion.} The submitter's and reviewer's vie= ws on +how to achieve a particular change may not always be aligned. As a +reviewer, try hard to explain the rationale for suggestions you ma= ke, +and to understand and take into account the submitter's motivation= for +doing things in a certain way. +@item +@emph{Aim for finalization.} Reviewing code is time-consuming. Y= our +goal as a reviewer is to put the process on a clear path towards +integration, possibly with agreed-upon changes, or rejection, with= a +clear and mutually-understood reasoning. Avoid leaving the review +process in a lingering state with no clear way out. Well, I do not like: =C2=AB discussion focuses on important aspects of the changes; do not let it be derailed by objectively unimportant issues =C2=BB because it is not clear for me what means =E2=80=9Cimportant aspects=E2=80= =9D or =E2=80=9Cobjectively unimportant issues=E2=80=9D. How do I gauge? Sometimes, what does not appear to me =E2=80=9Cimportant=E2=80=9D at first = has then, at the end, an impact that cannot be neglected. This new item appears to me as: it is not a open discussion and you should refrain from commenting if you are not sure your point is *absolutely* important. Instead of this new item =E2=80=93 where my understanding is: avoid bikeshe= d :-) and I agree =E2=80=93 I propose to amend the item @emph{Review is a discuss= ion.} by explicitly refer to the 3 other items; which are, IMHO, the guards against bikeshedding. Something along: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- @item @emph{Review is a discussion.} The submitter's and reviewer's views on how to achieve a particular change may not always be aligned. The discussion is lead by remain focused, ensure progress and aim for finalization; spend time proportional to the stakes@footnote{This situation is often referred to as ``bikeshedding'', where much time is spent discussing each one's preference for the color of the shed at the expense progress made on the project to keep bikes dry.}. As a reviewer, try hard to explain the rationale for suggestions you make, and to understand and take into account the submitter's motivation for doing things in a certain way. --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- WDYT? Does it capture the idea? If yes, I would pick this order for the enumeration: 1. Be clear and explicit about changes you are suggesting=20 2. Remain focused 3. Ensure progress 4. Aim for finalization 5. Review is a discussion Cheers, simon