From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e16b::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms8.migadu.com with LMTPS id SH7/JcFqdGVjxQAAauVa8A:P1 (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 09 Dec 2023 14:25:21 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:303:e16b::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id SH7/JcFqdGVjxQAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 09 Dec 2023 14:25:21 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2518A44B55 for ; Sat, 9 Dec 2023 14:25:21 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1702128321; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=IAyMJaTaPLxhn9sNsS1ULaoYSZOCJDaaau7TBV17zy0=; b=gdwMjFp1Vy9T9orkr7ygTxkkqstn4h7bwWI0Jco57w2DKF50daZKPt7P2P68dRt+T0vC0S tqlLJ0jYIwylbuiUxpz61bAwfXf1y0yMerj3mamnsf+tPRVwGmNVlgjZnEQ1mzvdaAW+BY Ov81f9IcEosiTcObZq8VUrs/IqQAIgx/SB0pUrgfioniZfdWn6Xn/QokRwGHfY22WSYwyu 1kC8F3rscl+6UpIs6VpyhjhQTfuexwf+nwzOwgzdJr4XCLD+MwxANeH/DlzqagmNwdjs1x I+7jxhrdO/xhz13xTQnBbY3ysmungdVhx+h0YjYA31l7/Jgg/ep6YdrP7EueJQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1702128321; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=FPjewkhtKVoLfjhxWpILzQZ92jZEF7xe+8jPEYEQUZjVK4W3PUE7MDUt+gJqcDJrCjBHOc yYaEnVADSmj80jtHul3df5QzazRfOed2d8PSSqK3fVbJ9rPnjQVdxeh89vscVv0ri3EHCO g9iXPxWJFvj6PaQeYNWemVUDoMY6GSI7GhEL+lfKSADhECH4C2tfvJYw2u17cluOuHqYeu iUNtdpRcCL90e7uAD770YxqcK65ms4diB0Qf9Pi7RI8Qq0yCXIr99I3hoRvBfdI6Zf00Ym rVko5lx5BrGPAB3nW6fggRXOwFQEnl1rGkqvoSEZHMxD+dtNVzOPu8uzyecOjg== Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rBxKE-0008Oc-Tb; Sat, 09 Dec 2023 08:24:58 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rBxKC-0008OP-Oz; Sat, 09 Dec 2023 08:24:56 -0500 Received: from mira.cbaines.net ([212.71.252.8]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rBxKB-0006Mw-4P; Sat, 09 Dec 2023 08:24:56 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [217.155.61.229]) by mira.cbaines.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EB5DC27BBE2; Sat, 9 Dec 2023 13:24:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from felis (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 4e2f6b11; Sat, 9 Dec 2023 13:24:51 +0000 (UTC) References: <87lea7jtlw.fsf@cbaines.net> <875y177iik.fsf@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.10.7; emacs 29.1 From: Christopher Baines To: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= Cc: guix-devel@gnu.org, guix-europe-sac@gnu.org, guix-maintainers@gnu.org Subject: Re: Shutting down qa.guix? Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2023 12:16:48 +0000 In-reply-to: <875y177iik.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <87lea3zexr.fsf@cbaines.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.71.252.8; envelope-from=mail@cbaines.net; helo=mira.cbaines.net X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: guix-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Development of GNU Guix and the GNU System distribution." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: guix-devel-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Scanner: mx13.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.51 X-Spam-Score: -2.51 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 2518A44B55 X-TUID: Q8ZowzacJhiV --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: > Hello, > > Christopher Baines skribis: > >> I am still planning to shutdown data.qa.guix.gnu.org and >> QA which depends on it within the next couple of weeks. I do hope it can >> return some point though, and hopefully sooner rather than later. >> >> On this like most decisions I'm indecisive, I could try and keep the >> current server going, but it's not the most cost effective setup and >> it's very low on disk space. I could replace the server with some >> slightly better setup, but this would still mean I'm managing a key part >> of the infrastructure, which is something I'm trying to move away >> from. There was some discussion of the project taking over the hosting, >> and maybe that will happen at some point, but it hasn't happened yet. So >> while not having qa.guix.gnu.org for a time isn't ideal, I'm still going >> with this approach. > > I think this underlines a collective failure to get our act together. > > I believe there=E2=80=99s consensus that qa.guix is useful and has been a= boost > for reviewers and contributors; we=E2=80=99d probably all want it to prov= ide > quicker feedback, which is a sign of success: we=E2=80=99ve come to rely = on it. > > I know this has been discussed several times and it remains unclear to > me why as a project we never managed to move forward=E2=80=94maybe the co= mfort > of the status quo? In addition, it's also unclear to me who should be making decisions on things like this. I also think that fundamentally I may think that processes and tooling to make changes is more important than others regard it to be. While it has no inherent value to users, personally I see it as so much more important than actual Guix features or packages since the value to users comes through Guix getting better faster, because of the increased pace of changes and reduced number of regressions. > Anyway, would it be possible for you to transfer billing of the hardware > (Hetzner?) to Guix Foundation? Does Guix Foundation know what it would > cost them? I believe so, at least I think that's possible. The costs have also been discussed previously. > The =E2=80=9Cspending committee=E2=80=9D (Tobias, Ricardo, and myself), w= hich oversees > expenditure from the funds held at the FSF, can also be in the loop to > provide additional financial support. > > As for system administration, is there documentation that people willing > to help could look at? Very concrete things like: what services are > running on which machines, what do I do if one of them is stuck or if I > get this error message, etc. The configuration for beid, the machine that runs data.qa.guix.gnu.org and Patchwork is in maintenance.git. It could probably use some more comments to provide some context for the configuration. There's also probably a benefit from making some high level architecture diagrams for QA and the bordeaux build farm, and I can try and make a start on these. As for monitoring and responding to problems, that's a bit more complicated, but in most cases a herd restart of the relevant bit will temporarily resolve the issue. I'm still working on mitigating some of the underlying problems that cause things to break. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKlBAEBCgCPFiEEPonu50WOcg2XVOCyXiijOwuE9XcFAmV0aqBfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDNF ODlFRUU3NDU4RTcyMEQ5NzU0RTBCMjVFMjhBMzNCMEI4NEY1NzcRHG1haWxAY2Jh aW5lcy5uZXQACgkQXiijOwuE9Xd0wRAAgHYU4Kc7aKqH9tNJTa6rBzY9uih3lN2J OcrY06DLMi0RawFgHQICJHQTaeZpW85TwqD1rQfYRjx2mPmtwasInEB9sibB11Vk CLewII57aAHdOjY6RWLxNvwL9Au26U64X/PPzt/XENB6nu/Q/Wzdmxi4ZGKZe08e //d30gAROYw16vGwdVyonuzK+B0tMzc94UXHAXkMlBsgULMqlrSNsnWAU9qvYxYG WHzHfk2WQQlSl69Be0XplZJTcqVEZijCWKoOopix9Ij+0U+eJo0Mymp7qdX/051k 7qXmvJil84saRSOsVBnJqz71FjwAfy9ZbdAEm5639HSHqnU9/lnMlli8aaXgWoeY 91ESy8KyPaAd21KD5t5FDPnc/VNsbTea/rw3E7J5DntELyFzc4YsE8JT0DvK2FEI a+l0soa5cSBHP4/VQVmGp8uQh7QPoheifHm8nXRxKawUYpzyNXFCBGBkhXCHcRp1 VEVyy0M1T6JSL33iJCpjH4Wqlz6/lHVlcHD533nPgo4zE0mSUSFWqHmgIKRfaxbf Cl3XmMsfYR6KGFwtS01nCqWJolyxoXhMmf66apZu28cK9h9jhAr5GzCNPL0vC3T7 h2UBAunJ/vqKS1kgTgeODaD+dNMhm7T3tbUx+2PHQ78VWxratNxBGy8NAYRdFAy0 CKsn6oFEfw0= =qKBE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--